Criticise the Saudis and you go home in pieces

I guess a new bar has been set, it's nothing new but so brazen now with our governments.

I look forward to hearing Jeremy Hunt saying with a straight face - "we have heard enough evidence and would like to draw a line on the issue". They're more blatantly guilty than Trump is of been a narcissist.
 
The Saudi's have been bombing Yemen for about 3 years, killed untold numbers of civilians and people get outraged about one man being bumped off in suspicious circumstances? it just shows how the corporate media can ferment selective outrage.
 
mmj_uk said:
The Saudi's have been bombing Yemen for about 3 years, killed untold numbers of civilians and people get outraged about one man being bumped off in suspicious circumstances? it just shows how the corporate media can ferment selective outrage.
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Gotta take what you can.
 
mmj_uk said:
The Saudi's have been bombing Yemen for about 3 years, killed untold numbers of civilians and people get outraged about one man being bumped off in suspicious circumstances? it just shows how the corporate media can ferment selective outrage.
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They also forced the Lebanese PM to resign, on TV, when he was in the country on an official visit. It backfired a bit and he's back in power with more popularity than before. But that's the sort of behaviour we're talking here.
 
Roar87 said:
It is essentially a moral conundrum as the play rightly pointed out as long ago as 1905.
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I like Shaw. :cool:

The first Undershaft wrote up in his shop. “If God gave the Hand, Let not Man withhold the Sword”

The second wrote up “All have the right to fight, None have the right to judge”

The third wrote up “To Man the Weapon, To Heaven the Victory”

The fourth had no literary turn, so he didn't write up anything. But he sold Cannons to Napoleon under the nose of George the Third.

The fifth wrote up “Peace will not prevail save with a Sword in her hand”

The Sixth, My Master, was the best of all. He wrote up “Nothing is ever done in this world unless Men are prepared to kill one another if it is not done”

After that, there was nothing left for the seventh to say. So He wrote up “Unashamed”
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He was a committed pacifist, but at the same time. he also clearly struggled over the contradictions inherent with that position and human progress... :/

(Particularly with reference to the sixth Undershafts mission statement!)
 
Some bullet points from today's speech by Erdogan:

Here are the main points made in today’s speech by the Turkish president, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan:

  • The “savage murder” of the dissident journalist Jamal Khashoggi was a premeditated, and meticulously planned, political operation, with Saudi officials scoping out forest areas outside Istanbul the day before Khashoggi died

  • While Saudi Arabia has “taken an important step by admitting the murder”, those responsible must be held to account and an independent, criminal investigation needs to be carried out by Turkish authorities

  • Of the 18 men arrested by Saudi Arabia in the investigation, 15 have already been identified by Turkish police as members of the hit squad who flew in and out of Istanbul the same day Khashoggi was killed.

  • Riyadh’s suggestion the killing was a rogue extradition operation gone wrong is unsatisfactory and Turkey’s investigation is still ongoing. Erdoğan also strongly criticised Saudi Arabia’s “inconsistent statements” over the case so far, and demanded the kingdom identify the “local collaborator” who allegedly disposed of Khashoggi’s body.

  • Tellingly, Erdoğan spoke of Saudi King Salman’s “sincerity” in the investigation so far, but made no mention of his son, Mohammed bin Salman, whom it is believed was probably aware of, and possibly even ordered, the silencing of his prominent critic.
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...ashoggi-death-erdogan-turkish-parliament-live

Interestingly he stopped short of releasing the audio/video/whatever, instead landing the ball back in SA's court.
 
ubersonic said:
Some bullet points from today's speech by Erdogan:



https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...ashoggi-death-erdogan-turkish-parliament-live

Interestingly he stopped short of releasing the audio/video/whatever, instead landing the ball back in SA's court.
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I guess you wait till you have all the facts. Because otherwise you give SA a chance to build a story which can't be immediately disproven.

Let them keep changing their story instead.

It looks like they have strong surveillance of embassies in Istanbul. Other embassies are now going to take countermeasures.
 
doodah said:
Who actually rules the country, King Salman or MBS?
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AFAIK Day to day it is MBS essentially.

I’d think of him as the CEO and the King as the chairman.

The UAE has a similar scenario in that although the Emir of Abu Dhabi is the President and the Emir of Dubai is the Vice President and prime minister in reality it is the crown prince of Abu Dhabi, MBZ, who runs things. He's supposedly a bit of a mentor for MBS too.

I guess it is perhaps more plausible that the King didn't know about this operation than MBS not knowing, it is certainly more convenient for Turkey to at least pretend the King didn't know if they are trying to take a massive long shot and get MBS held responsible for this in some way. It seems rather unlikely but I guess in theory the King could still topple MBS and appoint another presumptive heir.


muon said:
It looks like they have strong surveillance of embassies in Istanbul. Other embassies are now going to take countermeasures.
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That does seem to be why they've been reluctant to share details of the possible audio/video recordings... supposedly the CIA has seen(or heard) them and so (if what has been reported regarding them is true) the US ought to now know that there was a straight up torture/murder here and they can't entertain any BS excuses about an accidental death.
 
Well this internet meme tickled me :D.

"I'm sure once the U.S. gets to the bottom of this Saudi killing, it will do the right thing and invade two unrelated countries".
 
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