Cyberpunk 2077 Ultra performance

[fs123]

RT Off

RT On

Both are horrible but with RT on the shadow is no longer rendering in the white paint.
The game is hobbled with stuff like this throughout the game. This is why RT isn't that important.

And did he purposely disable ambient occlusion and self shadowing just to see it on RT? Because it's noticeably missing in the RT OFF screenshot.

You've got them the wrong way around I think. The slider shows RT ON to be the left side. https://imgsli.com/MzU1NjI

The RT ON is the one with the darker shadow next to the bike. The white paint would normally show as a darker shade of white in real life anyway but RT ON seems to make it totally obscured by the shadow which doesn't seem realistic to me.

 

[Grim5]

Sorry for cutting most of your post but what I did cut I do agree with in regards to overuse of pre-baked shadows. But the point above kinda demonstrates where I see the problems with RT in CP2077. For me it is clear looking at the non-RT water effects (among others) in CP2077 that the devs simply cut lots of corners. There is no excuse for the non-RT water (even at max settings) to look that flat and lifeless. When devs use RT to give improved effects then fair enough, but don't do it at the expense of other more traditional effects. So when people use screenshots to show how great RT water looks in CP2077 their first question should be, "why does the non-RT water look worse than games from 5+ years ago?"

Please understand I am not talking about the implementation of RT, but the fact that without it the graphics just seem to have regressed from what is the norm. Is it because of ineptitude, lack of time, or more nefarious reasons to make RT look more impressive when you turn it on.

This is the ultra setting without RT, can anyone seriously describe that flat lifeless water as acceptable for a 2020 AAA game?

Compared to Witcher 3, which is over 5 years old from the same developers?

looks much beter trhan witcher 3 even with RT off

 

[nvidiamd]

You've got them the wrong way around I think. The slider shows RT ON to be the left side. https://imgsli.com/MzU1NjI

The RT ON is the one with the darker shadow next to the bike. The white paint would normally show as a darker shade of white in real life anyway but RT ON seems to make it totally obscured by the shadow which doesn't seem realistic to me.

Yes it looks fine in non RT version.

 

[EastCoastHandle]

You've got them the wrong way around I think. The slider shows RT ON to be the left side. https://imgsli.com/MzU1NjI

The RT ON is the one with the darker shadow next to the bike. The white paint would normally show as a darker shade of white in real life anyway but RT ON seems to make it totally obscured by the shadow which doesn't seem realistic to me.

fixed
thanks

 

[Rroff]

The RT ON is the one with the darker shadow next to the bike. The white paint would normally show as a darker shade of white in real life anyway but RT ON seems to make it totally obscured by the shadow which doesn't seem realistic to me.

RT on usually adds more light into the scene in general - though it might not be true of every scene.

There are a lot of nasties in the game whether RT is on or off though - they use imposters for shadows quite a bit so sometimes things are casting a generic shadow that doesn't match the actual geometry and/or you can see the edges of the shadow incorrectly rendered from contact hardening. Lot of tricks used as well - RT reflections seem to be using a simplified version of the scene with stuff missing including the player character so it looks odd if you are carrying something which is reflected but the character not.

 

[Woodsta888]

looks much beter trhan witcher 3 even with RT off

That's because one pic is 4k, and one 1080p

 

[K1LaW8tt5]

Here is the clear benefits of ray traced SSR.
sorry that they are low res gif as it doesn't need the detail to demonstrate.
(What actually bugs me is that surface is wet/water yet no water splash when you drive/run through etc)

but anyway one for the fanboys to drool over @Wrinkly

RT On

higher detail consistent reflection

RT Off

lower detail reflection that disappears when the object is not visible

For me the drop fps is still too much and DLSS at 1440 has a blur I don't like in motion.
(I have not used DLSS in any other game so I don't know if it's just this game)

@4K DLSS is fine(not noticable) but at that res I can't get playable frames with RT on anyway.

RT is still just a teaser for what might be possible in a year or 2.

 

[Rroff]

RT is still just a teaser for what might be possible in a year or 2.

If they didn't have to accommodate people without any RT capable hardware the game could be fully path traced with better performance than currently with RT enabled - albeit would be some specular noise issues which would need probably 2-3x faster hardware again to accommodate the ray budget to eliminate to an ideal level.

 

[K1LaW8tt5]

If they didn't have to accommodate people without any RT capable hardware the game could be fully path traced with better performance than currently with RT enabled - albeit would be some specular noise issues which would need probably 2-3x faster hardware again to accommodate the ray budget to eliminate to an ideal level.

Yeah, but that can't happen just yet. And CDPR have enough of their own issues to deal with.
It's still too early to start forcing it as the only option.

One of the benefits of a fixed console type platform is you can replace older techniques with new ones when you release your new system if you need to.

 

[nvidiamd]

RT On

higher detail consistent reflection

Can you destroy a structure or at least a part of it? I think it will still be reflected even if it is not there anymore. I think only the dynamic objects are real time ray traced.

 

[Grim5]

Can you destroy a structure or at least a part of it? I think it will still be reflected even if it is not there anymore. I think only the dynamic objects are real time ray traced.

it's rayvtraced, screen space reflections have many negatives, one being they can't reflect objects are certain angles relative to the camera - generally only objects that are in the camera view can be reflected, everything on the side or behind is missed

mid love to see a new game or remake of Portal with rayvtracing

 

[hyperseven]

Yes it looks fine in non RT version.

Please do indicate then on the non-RT version where you think the light source would be to produce such a shadow.

 

[chris85oc]

Lol the last few pages are hilarious...

Starting with armchair devs discussing what they dont even understand ( cause game engines differ depending what you’re doing with the actual game ), to ‘witcher 3 reflections look better while ‘reflecting’ a mountain’ - one’s got a massive city to animate, the other some objects here and there and a few trees and whatnot, plus 3rd person vs 1st person, to in this one example RT looks bad lol i prefer RT off. Almost forgot, even the HDR one .. vincent is clearly amateur, the highly ‘calibrated’ - and by calibrated i mean hey ima destroy my image by having all the wrong options on cause hey! I like eye searing contrast and vibrancy... quantum tv is that you? ))) - q80 looks amazing..not. HDR is broken, period.

Oh oh and.. just another thing proving my point :

Both are horrible but with RT on the shadow is no longer rendering in the white paint.
The game is hobbled with stuff like this throughout the game. This is why RT isn't that important.

Sup Ech? RT looks bad cause RT is bad mkay? O oops, RT screen is the other one? Nevermind... uhhh the screen without RT looks good now that i know its not RT! ehheehe

Comical
Good thing all the experts are here to open our eyes

nah jk
Please do continue though. Its entertaining to read.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

If they didn't have to accommodate people without any RT capable hardware the game could be fully path traced with better performance than currently with RT enabled - albeit would be some specular noise issues which would need probably 2-3x faster hardware again to accommodate the ray budget to eliminate to an ideal level.

I know we've had a similar conversation before. But I think you are basing your opinion too heavily on quake RTX.

The nvidia marbles at night demo was only 1440p at 30 fps using DLSS I believe on a 3090. I don't know why there is such difference but if we are going to use one of these titles as the performance to expect from next gen looking rt titles. The marbles demo makes far more sense than quake RTX.

 

[Grim5]

I know we've had a similar conversation before. But I think you are basing your opinion too heavily on quake RTX.

The nvidia marbles at night demo was only 1440p at 30 fps using DLSS I believe on a 3090. I don't know why there is such difference but if we are going to use one of these titles as the performance to expect from next gen looking rt titles. The marbles demo makes far more sense than quake RTX.

Quake RTX and marbles is basically the same thing, only difference is the textures of the assets and asset types

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Quake RTX and marbles is basically the same thing, only difference is the textures of the assets and asset types

In another thread (https://www.overclockers.co.uk/foru...d-rtx-30-series.18910280/page-2#post-34319512) it was mentioned that these have little effect on the performance.

Yet there is a huge difference in performance between the marbles demo (1440p 30 fps with DLSS) and quake rtx demo (1440p 71fps DLSS off (https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-nvidia-geforce-rtx-3090-review?page=5)). I don't why it is so different, but I think if we are going to be speculating on the performance of AAA games with full path tracing then we should be using the performance of the marbles demo not quake RTX, since the marbles demo is a better representation of AAA games.

 

[nvidiamd]

it's rayvtraced, screen space reflections have many negatives, one being they can't reflect objects are certain angles relative to the camera - generally only objects that are in the camera view can be reflected, everything on the side or behind is missed

mid love to see a new game or remake of Portal with rayvtracing

I am talking about this:

If that is what RT reflections can do then for me it is a waste of resouces. Hell in CP you can't even see yourself but one can try to destroy the static scene and see if the reflections will change or only the dynamic things are ray traced. Or try that in Quake II.

 

[Rroff]

The Marbles demo has a far higher level of fidelity than is strictly required for games - albeit there is currently some work to be done when it comes to specular noise in Quake 2 RTX which vastly needs improvement. For instance Quake 2 RTX has only fast approximate caustics (and for time and lack of situations that use the feature in the standard Quake 2 maps the feature implementation is incomplete in Quake 2) while the Marbles demo has a complex, performance costly, caustics simulation far beyond what would satisfy the needs for gaming use.

Quake 2 RTX also does not use DLSS - the inclusion of that in a gaming scenario would boost performance strongly again - the new temporal upscaling does mimic much of the performance boost you'd get with the use of DLSS but not the image quality enhancement - it still does pretty well though - this for instance is a base 360p resolution render using temporal upscaling:

Or in Quake II.

Quake 2 uses full resolution, fully real-time/dynamic reflections that reflect the whole scene as is not using a simplified re-render and only cheats specular reflections at far render distance where you won't notice the difference anyway.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Lol the last few pages are hilarious...

Starting with armchair devs discussing what they dont even understand ( cause game engines differ depending what you’re doing with the actual game ), to ‘witcher 3 reflections look better while ‘reflecting’ a mountain’ - one’s got a massive city to animate, the other some objects here and there and a few trees and whatnot, plus 3rd person vs 1st person, to in this one example RT looks bad lol i prefer RT off.

The majority of the city is static, there is barely anything to "animate". Then again i haven't played the game. Maybe all the buildings do 180 degree swivels.

 

[nvidiamd]

Oh oh and.. just another thing proving my point :



Sup Ech? RT looks bad cause RT is bad mkay? O oops, RT screen is the other one? Nevermind... uhhh the screen without RT looks good now that i know its not RT! ehheehe

Comical

So because he put the wrong tags under the pictures it means he didn't knew which one is RT and which one is not RT? It may be a simple mistake, it is comical but more comical is to see that ugly shadow in the middle of a picture where someone is trying to prove how great RT shadows are.