Even without the cyclist in the picture that coach driver needs a talking to - not the worst I've seen by a long shot but given the 20 limit, nature of the built up area, etc. and the overtake forced the vehicles coming the other way to take action with very little room between them and the coach and then getting right up the behind of the car in front it was highly unprofessional driving.
Cyclists apopletic about law being applied to them
- Thread starter Resident
- Start date
Are you blind? The coach is CLEARLY speeding, so had no reason to pass. The cyclist isn't exactly going slow either.
funny that I wear glasses, but an experienced cyclist needs eyes in the back of their head .. should be able to distinguish a coach/hgv bearing down on you,
and have acted accordingly positioning to accept a pass when it is safe.
they say you don't hear the bullet that kills you.
funny that I wear glasses, but an experienced cyclist needs eyes in the back of their head .. should be able to distinguish a coach/hgv bearing down on you,
and have acted accordingly positioning to accept a pass when it is safe.
they say you don't hear the bullet that kills you.
We don't know the back story on it - not that I condone it but if the cyclist had been sitting in front of it for some time I can kind of understand the coach driver acting like that - though the way they come up from behind and drive after tends to suggest they'd approached driving in that manner.
Soldato
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All I can say is I've done over 15K miles commuting and recreationally ride on weekends for fitness and I have the opposite experience, I find the vast majority of cars are very compliant with me, and I don't feel at odds with them in the slightest.
I've said this previously, I ride in a manner that I feel I can act sympathetically and control the situation, I ride very defensively when needed and will happily block the lane to prevent anyone overtaking where necessary, but I'll also be 20-40cm from the edge to invite drivers to pass when safe to do so, and that is quite often.. I obviously meet other cyclists out and quite a few ride so at odds with the traffic it's obvious to me that honestly they are definitely part of the problem.
My observations
1. The term 'dangerous' is often misused.. Their is some irrational fear that 1M is not enough clearance and they class anyone coming within 2M as 'dangerous'.. It's irrational because the same individuals are always fine filtering obliviously at high speed with almost no clearance.. A situation where pot holes and other excuses still apply.. I'm not saying filtering is absolutely identical, but a pot hole or similar can still present itself to you at 20MPH whilst filtering within only 10cm of clearance, yet many cyclists will happily do this, so why suddenly the 'fear' when someone overtake is incredibly odd. I've literally seen this hundreds of times, riders in front shaking their fists at cars 1M away, only to catch up at the next lights and bomb up the inside with 10cm of clearance at a higher speed differential.. I personally am OK with 50cm of room, I never feel unsafe, and I've never had any issues because of someone that close, ever.. but that's likely because:
2. Obliviousness - This is huge.. When I have cars behind, and especially the moment they are alongside, I assess what's ahead, thinking for them.. if I am near a corner, I know that the last vehicle may misjudge the distance and cut in early so I'll back off and slow a little to manage that gap, and as such I have probably not experienced more instances of being cut up.. But again, following other riders it's cringeworthy how they are so oblivious, they literally just pedal flat out and do not deviate as I'm watching an obvious hazardous situation unfurl.. Whilst I would always put the legal blame on the car/van/lorry/bus driver in 90%+ of cases, the cyclist literally is an idiot IMO for not avoiding what was avoidable. Same goes in town commuting, it's worse IMO, where you have lots of traffic and you know cars will be struggling with visibility and a lot of things going on, why push it obliviously? It's always the same type of person too, they have zero awareness. Why can I see it a mile away and take avoiding action, yet they literally will be peddling flat out the entire time until it's too late?
3. Attitude - Another one.. Since I do ride out on organised weekend rides, I meet a good cross section of people and honestly you hear the aggressive ones, who recount the 100% of car drivers overtake them dangerously, etc, etc.. Then when out with them it's shocking.. they blindly apply guidance and the rules to cause maximum disruption and most certainly do not obey any rule that slows them down at all.. They act like spoilt, entitled man children.. The funny thing is, if you act like that, give no quarter and feel that it's your god given right to drive obliviously and everyone else should bow down before you, why don't you assume that every car driver is you in a car? i.e. they'll be impatient, entitled etc.. This is why a lot of issues occur, because people are people, impatient/oblivious/entitled people are on bikes and in cars.. and as we all know, cars hurt bikes, so perhaps the reality is not to rely on words in a book, but understand the basics that those with the most to lose to easily should probably take things more in to their own hands.. Yet even then, they think taking it in to their own hands is sticking out and causing maximum carnage by blocking cars 99% of the time.
I still blame and would like to see car/van/lorry/bus drivers prosecuted, because with a lack of policing all round (equally towards cyclists IMO, they need to be shown they also need to equally stick to the rules), words in a book are almost meaningless.
I know this will be seen as controversial, but I can't help it if riding out and about I see two types of cyclist, those like me who react to what is around to increase our safety and those who are oblivious and stand out and always quote the highway code as to why they should religiously be riding at odds with traffic/other humans of the same mindset as if that makes it OK..
All I can say is I've done over 15K miles commuting and recreationally ride on weekends for fitness and I have the opposite experience, I find the vast majority of cars are very compliant with me, and I don't feel at odds with them in the slightest.
I've said this previously, I ride in a manner that I feel I can act sympathetically and control the situation, I ride very defensively when needed and will happily block the lane to prevent anyone overtaking where necessary, but I'll also be 20-40cm from the edge to invite drivers to pass when safe to do so, and that is quite often.. I obviously meet other cyclists out and quite a few ride so at odds with the traffic it's obvious to me that honestly they are definitely part of the problem.
My observations
1. The term 'dangerous' is often misused.. Their is some irrational fear that 1M is not enough clearance and they class anyone coming within 2M as 'dangerous'.. It's irrational because the same individuals are always fine filtering obliviously at high speed with almost no clearance.. A situation where pot holes and other excuses still apply.. I'm not saying filtering is absolutely identical, but a pot hole or similar can still present itself to you at 20MPH whilst filtering within only 10cm of clearance, yet many cyclists will happily do this, so why suddenly the 'fear' when someone overtake is incredibly odd. I've literally seen this hundreds of times, riders in front shaking their fists at cars 1M away, only to catch up at the next lights and bomb up the inside with 10cm of clearance at a higher speed differential.. I personally am OK with 50cm of room, I never feel unsafe, and I've never had any issues because of someone that close, ever.. but that's likely because:
2. Obliviousness - This is huge.. When I have cars behind, and especially the moment they are alongside, I assess what's ahead, thinking for them.. if I am near a corner, I know that the last vehicle may misjudge the distance and cut in early so I'll back off and slow a little to manage that gap, and as such I have probably not experienced more instances of being cut up.. But again, following other riders it's cringeworthy how they are so oblivious, they literally just pedal flat out and do not deviate as I'm watching an obvious hazardous situation unfurl.. Whilst I would always put the legal blame on the car/van/lorry/bus driver in 90%+ of cases, the cyclist literally is an idiot IMO for not avoiding what was avoidable. Same goes in town commuting, it's worse IMO, where you have lots of traffic and you know cars will be struggling with visibility and a lot of things going on, why push it obliviously? It's always the same type of person too, they have zero awareness. Why can I see it a mile away and take avoiding action, yet they literally will be peddling flat out the entire time until it's too late?
3. Attitude - Another one.. Since I do ride out on organised weekend rides, I meet a good cross section of people and honestly you hear the aggressive ones, who recount the 100% of car drivers overtake them dangerously, etc, etc.. Then when out with them it's shocking.. they blindly apply guidance and the rules to cause maximum disruption and most certainly do not obey any rule that slows them down at all.. They act like spoilt, entitled man children.. The funny thing is, if you act like that, give no quarter and feel that it's your god given right to drive obliviously and everyone else should bow down before you, why don't you assume that every car driver is you in a car? i.e. they'll be impatient, entitled etc.. This is why a lot of issues occur, because people are people, impatient/oblivious/entitled people are on bikes and in cars.. and as we all know, cars hurt bikes, so perhaps the reality is not to rely on words in a book, but understand the basics that those with the most to lose to easily should probably take things more in to their own hands.. Yet even then, they think taking it in to their own hands is sticking out and causing maximum carnage by blocking cars 99% of the time.
I still blame and would like to see car/van/lorry/bus drivers prosecuted, because with a lack of policing all round (equally towards cyclists IMO, they need to be shown they also need to equally stick to the rules), words in a book are almost meaningless.
I know this will be seen as controversial, but I can't help it if riding out and about I see two types of cyclist, those like me who react to what is around to increase our safety and those who are oblivious and stand out and always quote the highway code as to why they should religiously be riding at odds with traffic/other humans of the same mindset as if that makes it OK..
Caporegime
I agree with some of this but it reads very much like you are saying that every cyclist should be controlling the traffic at all times and that drivers are just drones on our road with no responsibility. Not everyone is a confident cyclist or likes to feel like they are blocking traffic a lot of the time. There are extreme examples of bad drivers and bad cyclists but its almost never the cyclists fault when a driver makes a dangerous overtake. The only time I would ever blame the cyclist is if they do something completely mad and unexpected like swing across a lane without checking and indicating. Outside of that, the narrative that its up to cyclists to manage drivers is very dangerous and would put off even more people from cycling.
Where do you ride by the way?
I'm sure that after thousands of miles I will have a 6th sense about when drivers are likely to pull dodgy manoeuvres on me and manage it but as it stands I have had a number of completely unnecessary and ridiculous overtakes on me and I don't commute, only cycling for exercise. It didn't even cross my mind that someone would come within 50cm of me in a skip lorry when there was no one on the other side of the road and there was no other traffic on a big wide road. People overtaking too close when the road is plenty wide enough and clear enough not to has happened quite a few times.
Soldato
I probably did come across a bit strong, I think we all have the same goal. Car drivers should certainly not be drones with no responsibility and as mentioned, it bothers me that drivers shown to act like idiots (especially those causing collisions through cutting back in too early etc) are not prosecuted, they need to be.. But there's the pragmatic element, I don't ride around as if doggedly sticking to the highway code is actually going to make me 'safe'.. it simply won't.. it'll perhaps work in some specific situations, but as massively evidenced through my own experiences, avoiding idiot car drivers is IMO a necessary part of keeping you safe.. As it's better policed and as idiot car drivers decline in numbers (as hopefully will happen), then sure, be less vigilance/pro-active..
Most of my commuting was into and out of Cheltenham (15-20 miles a day), but now due to only being 1.5 miles from work, I walk 50% of the time, but when cycling it's literally 5 minutes on a fairly easy stretch, weekends I climb out of Cheltenham (usually via Cleeve Hill) through the Cotswolds and back via various routes, once a month I join an organised outing, although that tends to be south from Gloucester to Bristol via various routes.
I totally agree. IMO the driver of that coach should be prosecuted. He looks to be breaking the speed limit (easily confirmed with his tacho); passed dangerously close to the cyclist (even by the old Highway Code standards), the draft from him passing could have knocked the cyclist off his bike and under his vehicle; and the overtake forced the on-coming traffic to take evasive action to avoid a collision.
There's no justification for that driving. What do you think a Magistrate would say if his only defence was, 'The cyclist had been in my way for a few miles as there was nowhere to pass and I was running late, so just went for it at the earliest opportunity...'?
In all this back and forth about cyclists v car drivers etc, one indisputable thing shines through, I cannot speak for other cities, but anyone who believes that more cars run red lights in London is seriously kidding themselves.
Anyone who runs a red should be prosecuted, cyclist, motorcyclist, car, truck, whatever, they’re all in the wrong, but it’s myopic in the extreme to claim that cars run more reds in London than cyclists do.
Anyone who runs a red should be prosecuted, cyclist, motorcyclist, car, truck, whatever, they’re all in the wrong, but it’s myopic in the extreme to claim that cars run more reds in London than cyclists do.
Consider there are a lot more cars than cyclists.
Its also junction specific. Some will be more suitable in a car/bicycle than others. There are studies that show more cars than cyclist breaking lights, and sometimes the other way around. I suspect thats the reason.
For example you might have junction that is so congested that few cars can get through it. But cyclists are not constrained by the traffic. Likewise you have a junction that few cyclists use. But many cars use.
I'm not in London. But where I am when driving I will see cars cut across me before the lights turn green, and I will cars follow me through a junction even though its turned red. Cyclists breaking lights is also common. But there's a lot less cyclists.
You could summarise this as there are good/bad cyclists/drivers. Yes it was equally unnecessary to quote your entire post to say that.
This one (London again) from a few years back is pretty funny
Sad thing is that the bus driver probably got reported and faced the sack for it.
Man of Honour
It all depends where you live and the reason why I say 'in my experience' a lot. Also what Osprey says, different roads, lights etc will have road users acting in different ways.
I can ride to and from work and never see another cyclist but at certain lights I will see car drivers go through red.
I see maybe 1 car a month actually a jump a red and never after the first few seconds. But I see almost every cyclist do it, maybe 2 in 10 stop even on busy crossroads. Many just hop up on to the pavement and dodge pedestrians, which is also illegal.
I don't think he would. It was 100% the cyclists own fault and unless he happened to look in the mirror at that second, he wouldn't have noticed it any more than a fly hitting the windscreen.
Cyclists get fully squished due to their own stupidity and the drivers don't get blamed or fired for it. It wasn't their fault.
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Soldato
This one (London again) from a few years back is pretty funny
ah it’s hilarious. Cyclists brakes actually snapped and he couldn’t stop funny enough!
I would say anyone can snap a bike cable, or moreover the handlebar lever if they really whaled on it
- system is not as robust as a car, perhaps a hydraulic bike brake is more robust
at the point you have locked the wheel you are already screwed.
New red light jump cameras being installed in uk
https://www.tattile.com/vision-solutions/vega-smart-red-traffic-light-camera/
5Mpixel with infrared illumination that require no hook in to existing light (they just monitor them to know state)
if that is the solution to robust ocr recognition (plate/make/model) then that's what I need for a dash-cam - can you legally illuminate road in infrared ?
doesn't mention cyclists.
e: ir negligible benefit on blackvue
Blackvue DR900X-2CH Plus vs. DR900X-2CH - Front + Rear 4K Night
- system is not as robust as a car, perhaps a hydraulic bike brake is more robust
at the point you have locked the wheel you are already screwed.
New red light jump cameras being installed in uk
https://www.tattile.com/vision-solutions/vega-smart-red-traffic-light-camera/
5Mpixel with infrared illumination that require no hook in to existing light (they just monitor them to know state)
if that is the solution to robust ocr recognition (plate/make/model) then that's what I need for a dash-cam - can you legally illuminate road in infrared ?
doesn't mention cyclists.
e: ir negligible benefit on blackvue
Blackvue DR900X-2CH Plus vs. DR900X-2CH - Front + Rear 4K Night
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ah it’s hilarious. Cyclists brakes actually snapped and he couldn’t stop funny enough!
I heard that too, either way it's his fault. Both brakes failing at the same time is a major maintenance fail.
Though I suspect he's probably not telling the truth. Even with the poor quality of the video I can see he's still peddling after the lights, so he's not trying to stop.
There was a fair distance from the lights and the coach. If he was stopping for the lights he would have know there was a problem way before and used his feet. So I'm call BS or he's just an idiot.
Soldato
I think you’d lock the wheels up in those wet conditions rather than snap a brake cable even if you have seriously high grip strength.
I’ve only ever seen brake cables snap when they’d already been frayed down to half thickness and then seized solid.
I’ve only ever seen brake cables snap when they’d already been frayed down to half thickness and then seized solid.
ah it’s hilarious. Cyclists brakes actually snapped and he couldn’t stop funny enough!
Yea because when my brakes stop working, I just carry on at fell pelt in a straight line until I hit something.
ah it’s hilarious. Cyclists brakes actually snapped and he couldn’t stop funny enough!
Several ways he could have scrubbed off speed well before the light though, one being he could have turned.
Or like I did in my youth, jammed my foot on the rear wheel Wasn't painless but I didn't end up hitting the wall I was hurtling towards