D600 with full fat AF system!

Soldato
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^^^
Yeh just checked DXO, it's about the same as a D800E.
Interesting how the D800 has less ISO than D800E. Always thought AA filters blocked a little light from hitting the sensor, and people said my theory was crazy.
As the D800 filter is weak, I assume the stronger filters would sap a higher percentage of light.
 
Caporegime
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Well, every optical pass through any glass lowers the transmission ration (T-Stop), but the D800E despite having no apparent AA filter still has all the optical elements so this isn't an issue. If the AA filter was fully removed there would be a tiny improvement there but probalby not worth it.

One effect of the AA filter is that it can scatter light such that it has less effective coverage on the pixels with more light hitting the gaps between pixels. Microlenses help somewhat here but are not 100% effective.

Another thing an AA filter does is share the incoming light that might hit a particular pixel between neighboring pixels. Due to the color filter this means there will be a small loss of light as some light might be blocked by the color filter. Imagine 3 photosensitive pixel grouped together tightly, each pixel sensitive to red, or green, or blue only. Imagine a ray of red light of the correct wavelength such as if it hit the red pixel that pixel would receive 100% of the photons and the blue-green pixels 0%. That is what happens without an AA filter. With an AA filter the light is scattered and shared between the other 2 neighboring pixels, so the red pixel might only get 80% of the red light, while the blue and green each get 10% of the red light, which is entirely blocked by colour filter. So in this case the AA filter has cost 20% of the photons, which is huge.
The opposite happens if the wrong colour light would entirely hit a single pixel. So imagine some blue light hits the red pixel, without an AA filter the red pixel receives 0% of the photos because it is blocked by the color filter, and there is no scattering so the other 2 neighboring pixels get nothing either. In a sensor with an AA filter using the same figures as before, 80% of the blue light would hit the red pixel and be wasted. However, both the green and blue pixels will each receive 10% of the blue light, the green pixel throws this way again due to the colour filter but the blue pixel will receive 10% of the total photons.
So the AA gains a little in this case, but the total gains are less. If we add the percentages of the 2 cases then the sensor without the AA filter receives 100% + 0% of the photons, the sensor with the AA filter receives 80% + 10%. The difference would be a massive 100% vs 90%, to put things into perspective the ability of a sensor to convert photons into electrons (quantum efficiency) is differentiated by differences of 1%, 1-2% difference will make a measurable change in final noise.

This is a bit of simplification (most light wont be truly a single optimal wavelength for the pixel) and I don't know what % of the light gets blurred by the AA filter, and the complexities of the Bayer filter and associated algorithms to generate a full colour picture may effective things. But the basic premise is correct, if you scatter light and only 1 in 3 of the pixels are sensitive then you will always loose that light.


From this it is also clear that if you shoot black and white then a camera without a Bayer filter will offer massive improvements for low light. But you loose the flexibility to process by colors.

What would be really nice is a modular camera that you can remove the AA filter, IR filter and colour filter at will, putting them back when ever you need, and ideally choosing which of the 3 you want to have in.
 
Associate
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Sorry, but on what planet is the D600 low light performance "pretty bad". What exactly brought you to that logical conclusion?

Orignally the site i looked at showed the Iso of only 10xx on D600 Vs 2300 on the D700, Since then the website has corrected what they was saying, Since the reply was post.
http://snapsort.com/compare/Nikon-D600-vs-Nikon_D700 Now Fixed, So yes i can now see the ISO is a lot better then the D700, Shame about the shutter speed and price still though. :rolleyes:
 
Soldato
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The spread of the AF points really lets this body down imo. I'd seriously consider one if it had a "thirds rule" coverage as I use those points nearly all of the time. Having to focus recompose like I was forced to do on the 5D mk ii isn't exactly ideal unless its a static object and even then you need to make sure the DOF covers the recomposed part anyway.
 
Soldato
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Even if the subject is mostly static, focus recompose doesn't allow decent accuracy or timing. Once you get used to not needing to focus recompose, it's hard to go back.

True, but thats why I said about static targets. Focus recomposing on a moving target would be pure pot luck instead of any actual skill (depending on range, aperture and lighting obv).

The lack of the rear focus button also makes focus recomposing more of an issue anyway, although this can be bound to the AE-L lock button instead (which I rarely ever use)
 
Soldato
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If your not focus recomposing, then the back button isn't of much benefit, in fact it's worse in allot of cases as it adds unnecessary latency from AF lock, to releasing the shutter.
The only benefit of AF-ON button, is if you set shutter button to AF as normal, and then set the AF-ON button to focus continuously. That way you can switch AF drive modes much faster. I don't very often use AFC so not a big issue for me, but when I do need it, it's not hard to switch over anyway.
 
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