Poll: DAB+ is the future? Digital terrestrial radio broadcasting

[lucid]

Sound quality comparison - the FM sound is so distorted:

BWAH HA-HA-HA-HA-HA

Is that it? Thats your credible "proof", is it? One person sat in their car, more than likely parked somewhere with dodgy FM reception, doing a handheld video on their phone.

I thought taking your posts apart to debunk your arguments was as easy as shooting fish in a barrel, but I can see that I really needn't have bothered with that, even. I should have just left you to sink your own ship, which you've just done in fine style.

 

[4K8KW10]

dodgy FM reception

Dodgy FM reception is everywhere. Especially with the modern, extremely dense city environments and buildings one next to another.
Not every FM station broadcasts with 20 kW of power, in some countries most of the stations broadcast at under 500 W, even in some cases down to 50 W.

How do you expect a 50-watt FM signal to be good, other than in a small village?


You have no idea what the advantages of DAB+ are and are probably paid to troll my thread.

 

[TALON1973]

He’s not paid to do anything. It’s a FACT dab is rubbish in the uk. Actually if you read the comments posted in the YouTube video DAB is rubbished by nearly everyone in EVERY country lol.

And as you like reposting that silly car video.... here’s the one I posted before that you failed to rebuttal....

Edit ... the guy has 1 million subscribers and has been around since 2009.

So to make it Crystal clear..... a man in a car vs a guy with 11 years of YouTube reviews and 1 million subscribers ...... tough choice lol

 

[lucid]

Not every FM station broadcasts with 20 kW of power, in some countries most of the stations broadcast at under 500 W, even in some cases down to 50 W.


How do you expect a 50-watt FM signal to be good, other than in a small village?

Not that I made a comment about transmitter powers in my previous post, but what I would expect is for the broadcast engineers to design their transmitters to reach their target audiences. If that takes 50W then so be it. If it requires 20kW then that's equally fine.

You have no idea what the advantages of DAB+ are

Going by the comments from myself and other forum members in this thread, I would say that your statement is patently untrue.


You're dealing with intelligent and experienced forum members here. We are smart enough to see through the spin and marketing B.S. from your own comments and from the information in the links you have provided.


AFAICT, the only person in this thread it seems who appears to be naive enough to accept at face value the rather obvious propaganda they're being spoon fed is you.

(You) are probably paid to troll my thread.

What's rather sad here is that you missed the point that I would welcome a high quality DAB/DAB+ service. I said as much in post #5 back in June or July.


What I and others are not prepared to accept is to see FM sacrificed on the alter of mediocrity simply to facilitate some short term financial gain as Governments cash in by selling off national assets. It's a bad deal.


We are fighting this, both through democratic means of protest and by tackling post such as yours to expose the half-truths and the spin so that others might get a more balanced view of the pros and cons.

 

[4K8KW10]

I disagree with you. The reason for so low bitrate in the UK is that someone good has decided to give YOU an opportunity to broadcast YOUR own radio.

When would it happen on the FM frequencies - never because everything is occupied or there is no enough space/allocation for everyone.

You must be thankful, not to blame it.

 

[jpaul]

So are there particular uk dab stations you'd recommend ?

I've a number of IP stations I'd love to dip into in the car, if I had the appropriate infotainment

Radio-Caroline-259-Gold
Hi On Line Classic Radio
Nashville FM [24/7 Nonstop Country Music]
Radio Paradise
....

maybe these are pirate'ish in so much that performance rights costs are probably not cheap for a local dab.

they're all fairly high bitrate;
even youtube now, at home, their miserly ~128kb/s aac is pretty maginal, but perhaps ok in the car

 

[lucid]

I disagree with you.

Oh? Any particular points, or is that more of a general statement of principle from you?

The reason for so low bitrate in the UK is that someone good has decided to give YOU an opportunity to broadcast YOUR own radio.

When would it happen on the FM frequencies - never because everything is occupied or there is no enough space/allocation for everyone.

You must be thankful, not to blame it.

So you're suggesting what, exactly; that people should set up their own DAB radio station? That's your big solution, is it? (I'm now wondering if you're on drugs or just trolling your own thread.)

Incidentally, there have been and may well still be instances of people setting up temporary pirate broadcasts on FM, so there is some space and that shoots down yet another of your gross assumptions.

List of pirate FM stations for the London area

 

[jpaul]

he's saying people have the opportunity to set up a station - democratization of the airwaves, which is true,
if they can produce some content people want to listen to, and finance that.

 

[4K8KW10]

he's saying people have the opportunity to set up a station - democratization of the airwaves, which is true,
if they can produce some content people want to listen to, and finance that.

Yes, but not only this.

What I like about the DAB+ is its crystal clear high fidelity high resolution sound - the DAB+ receivers have frequency response range much wider than what the FM signal can give which is only between 30 Hz and 15 kHz.
My headphones' frequency response is between 10 Hz and 30 KHz which means that if I listen to an FM signal with it, I would hear less than 50% of its intended capacity.

FM to DAB+ is like SD to Ultra HD with HDR...

 

[TALON1973]

High Fidelity???? Lol

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

Yes, but not only this.

What I like about the DAB+ is its crystal clear high fidelity high resolution sound - the DAB+ receivers have frequency response range much wider than what the FM signal can give which is only between 30 Hz and 15 kHz.
My headphones' frequency response is between 10 Hz and 30 KHz which means that if I listen to an FM signal with it, I would hear less than 50% of its intended capacity.

FM to DAB+ is like SD to Ultra HD with HDR...

Did you just say that?
When it's running with a 64kbps data feed?
Are you having a laugh?

It's also worth bearing in mind that DAB is NOT just competing with FM. It's also now up against streaming.
I have unlimited data limits on my phone, and could if I so wished stream 24 bit audio from Quboz.
Let's face it, DAB is now a solution to a question that is not only no longer really needed, but is actually counterproductive.

 

[Firestar_3x]

Really enjoy driving along listening to those mainstream DAB music stations broadcast in glorious mono, sounds totally amazing coming out of my 16 speaker Meridian sound system.

 

[lucid]

he's saying people have the opportunity to set up a station - democratization of the airwaves, which is true,
if they can produce some content people want to listen to, and finance that.

Thanks, but I understand perfectly well what he wrote. I'm just gobsmacked that it was offered as a genuine suggestion. It's akin to telling a homeless person it's their own fault for not building themselves a house.

We call this victim blaming.

 

[4K8KW10]

Did you just say that?
When it's running with a 64kbps data feed?
Are you having a laugh?

It's also worth bearing in mind that DAB is NOT just competing with FM. It's also now up against streaming.
I have unlimited data limits on my phone, and could if I so wished stream 24 bit audio from Quboz.
Let's face it, DAB is now a solution to a question that is not only no longer really needed, but is actually counterproductive.

I don't use my phone for listening to music. I prefer to listen to music from proper devices which are able to reach close to studio quality.

DAB+ doesn't compete with streaming for anything - DAB+ comes from public networks normally owned or controlled by one country's government, while streaming is available in local, private and so, closed networks which require direct payments.

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

I don't use my phone for listening to music. I prefer to listen to music from proper devices which are able to reach close to studio quality.

DAB+ doesn't compete with streaming for anything - DAB+ comes from public networks normally owned or controlled by one country's government, while streaming is available in local, private and so, closed networks which require direct payments.

Is that in the same way that horse drawn carts didn't compete with cars at the start of the 20th century, just because one used a horse and some wishful thinking?
Be serious, how many people own a DAB radio and how many a mobile phone or internet connection at home with a data feed? Chances are that the % is higher for people with access to the net. So whilst you might not "wish" for DAB to be competing with mobile streaming of music, it is. Just ask your friends.

As for the audio type, yeah OK, I get that. However, IIRC, DAB radios are available for the home, meaning that they very much are attempting to compete with no only CD quality music, but also 24 bit audio for some people. So the use of 64kpbs is simply laughable.

 

[lucid]

What I like about the DAB+ is its crystal clear high fidelity high resolution sound

Read the comments from others to this point. You're living in a fantasy world. This is a red pill / blue pill moment. Are you brave enough to wake up to reality?

the DAB+ receivers have frequency response range much wider than what the FM signal can give which is only between 30 Hz and 15 kHz.

Something that's actually true, but I would question your use of "much wider".

I haven't yet seen any audio frequency characteristics for the output of DAB/DAB+ tuners. The BBC white paper suggests that the coding system should be capable of handling a 20Hz to 20kHz signal, so lets use that as a base. What we're looking at then is 10Hz of bass that many headphone and speaker users won't hear because their systems aren't capable. Then there's 5kHz of treble that those of us over 20 will already be missing a chunk of.

My headphones' frequency response is between 10 Hz and 30 KHz which means that if I listen to an FM signal with it, I would hear less than 50% of its intended capacity.

I think your understand of the tech and the maths is somewhat lacking.

The fact that your headphones have this audio range is immaterial. There's no useful audio signal in the DAB/DAB+ feed to make use of the extra extension above and below 20-20k.

Including that in your 50% figures then is wrong. Plus, audio ranges are expressed logarithmically (its a closer match to human sensitivity and perception of sound) and I think your maths is based on linear scales.

FM to DAB+ is like SD to Ultra HD with HDR...

Er no, just no.


The best that DAB/DAB+ can manage is a theoretical 20Hz to 20kHz at "CD quality" 320/256kbps. But that's not what you're listening to. Maybe you're at 128-160kbps if you're lucky.


The Achilles heel with all your arguments is the huge gulf between the theoretical best and the reality of what's actually being broadcast. It shoots you down every time.

 

[4K8KW10]

Is that in the same way that horse drawn carts didn't compete with cars at the start of the 20th century, just because one used a horse and some wishful thinking?

But the FM is very old technology and it needs a replacement - there should be some type of terrestrial radio and it has been decided that it will be DAB+.

It doesn't matter if you like it or not - it will just happen - better just accept it and get used to it.

 

[TALON1973]

But the FM is very old technology and it needs a replacement - there should be some type of terrestrial radio and it has been decided that it will be DAB+.

It doesn't matter if you like it or not - it will just happen - better just accept it and get used to it.

So you’ve basically given up on your argument as you know your wrong lol. Vinyl is very old , that doesn’t make it bad. As a format, DAB ( in the uk at least ) isn’t fit for purpose. It does a job....... poorly. But that’s all you can say about it.

 

[4K8KW10]

So you’ve basically given up on your argument as you know your wrong lol. Vinyl is very old , that doesn’t make it bad. As a format, DAB ( in the uk at least ) isn’t fit for purpose. It does a job....... poorly. But that’s all you can say about it.

Streaming is not terrestrial technology for broadcasting normal radio signals - there is no standard for streaming and the government will never use streaming in cases of emergency, etc.
You have no idea what you are talking about, have you?

 

[lucid]

Streaming is not terrestrial technology for broadcasting normal radio signals - there is no standard for streaming and the government will never use streaming in cases of emergency, etc.
You have no idea what you are talking about, have you?

No one apart from you has brought early warning systems in to the discussion. His point is valid. DAB/DAB+ is competing for listeners versus all sorts of other delivery services, and that includes streaming. Trying to defeat that point with the distraction of early warning systems just goes to show that you're clutching at straws.

Incidentally, Britain no longer has an early warning system. It was scrapped by the Conservative Government here about ten years ago. Your point then is moot at least as far as Britain goes.