Death From Piercing! :(

SidewinderINC said:
now we've got down that far, lets go a little bit deeper. what made you choose lip when you got in there?





and to this, i have the same sentiments. the only jewelry i wear is a titanium ring (ex bought it for me) and a shark tooth pendant that i was bought from gran canaria cause i couldnt go :(


Hmmm, another good question. Im really sorry to say this, but it was so long ago i dont know why, im beginning to think it really was pointless as i have no reasoning to it. and to be fair, its not my lip, its a labret piercing (common or what, lol)

I kept it in for ages, then took it out for ages, then i saw a girl i fancied who said i look better with it in, so its stayed since. im so pathetic and easily manipulated, oh dear :P
 
DRZ said:
I only said that because maybe it is relevant to why I dont "get it".

I dont wear a ring because every time I have had one, I wear it for a day and take it off and never bother to put it back on - same goes for bracelets and chains.

If I had a personal reason to wear one, I would wear one. Perhaps if I get engaged or married I would wear one because it means something (like your bracelets).

If I applied that way of thinking to this discussion, it would mean that I would never get peirced on the spur of the moment because it would mean nothing and just become an irritation to me. Id rather take it out than do what most seem to do and spin up some "you wont ever understand" crap or "it means something so personal you wont ever know".

It might read that I am tarring all with the same brush but I am not trying to - I just generally get a response that given me the impressions I have today.

No i see where your coming from, I hope you don't think im coming up with the typical response you know. It really that i honestly dont know why i got it, I can see how it annoys you though. I think some people see themselves as special because they have piercings/tats, so i completely understand your point of view.
 
as i say, i didnt mean to pick on you in particular mate, heh. i invisage a trembling wreck thinking *dear lord what have i done!!*

it was going to end up hopefully boiling down to doing it because you saw somebody that looked cool with one :p

thats the only reason ive ever considered getting a piercing, my nose cause slash has it and it looks cool. but due to that being the only reason, ive never actually gone through with it!
 
SidewinderINC said:
as i say, i didnt mean to pick on you in particular mate, heh. i invisage a trembling wreck thinking *dear lord what have i done!!*

it was going to end up hopefully boiling down to doing it because you saw somebody that looked cool with one :p

thats the only reason ive ever considered getting a piercing, my nose cause slash has it and it looks cool. but due to that being the only reason, ive never actually gone through with it!

hehe fair enough.
To be honest, going back to a previous question about why i got what i did pierced, and not ear etc. i suppose that is down to having seen one before and when it came to me, what shall i get done i though yeah that sounds good. But thats the reason for the particular piercing, not the original decision to get SOMETHING pierced.

as for the tatoo, me and my (now ex :() both got the same thing done on our wrists. although we arent together now, i dont regret it, as she was a big part of my life so its all good, nice to remember her forever with it........ wow that sounds so corny, im going to read a book. bye
 
DRZ, it's just down to your personal feelings tbh....you say that you find a chain irritating, thus you take it off....i feel uncomfortable when i'm not wearing my chain. It's not thick or flashy chain, ive just had it for years and i almost feel naked when im not wearing it. Same as some people do with watches, and I'm sure people who have piercings feel the same, just a natural reaction I suppose. Piercings do feel quite nice when you play with them anyway, (i dont currently have a piercing but i used to, which i removed due to peer pressure when i was 11), and i imagine ones in more intimate places do so even more ;)


Another thing, you seem to be asking "why", where as most people with piercings think the opposite: why not? I personally don't have any piercings, but may get one soon, as I just like them. Same as when i've got an arm worth putting one on, I'll get a tattoo. No reason other than I want it doing, and like how they look, simple as :)

Tom.
 
DRZ said:
I do not believe for one single minute that piercings are not done for any other reason than to show off in one way or another.

Please, try and convince me otherwise. I dont have my head stuck in the sand about this (despite what you might think) and I would like to be proven wrong, I just cant see it happening.

DRZ said:
If thats what it takes, I will go and get a piercing. I bet you anything I still dont "understand", probably because I am not an attention seeker.

Its no coincidence that at least 75% of the people I have met with piercings/tats have veiwpoints that are at odds with what is "normal" or "sensible", have an air of pseudo-intelligence about them and often seek to belittle people that do not conform to their rejection of "normality".


Point 1: the most heavily modified individual that I know wears a suit 6 days a week, makes a rather immense amount of money and the only people that know he has anything at all are his wife and very close friends.

Attention seeker?

Point 2: I have a few genital mods. I never mention them outside of related conversation (such as this) and am not in the habit of getting my wang out in the street.

For attention? Sure, I like the attention my girlfriend gives them.

DRZ said:
Its not like I have a huge hate for them or those that do choose to do it to themselves but ever since I came across them for the first time I have wondered why and I have NEVER had a satisfactory answer. It is often the usual BS or an "I dont really know".

I like the way they look, I like the way they feel - the way they move as I move (people without heavy-guage oral and genital piercings won't 'get' this one at all), I like the way they feel for my girlfriend, I like being pierced, I like the satisfaction of succesfully healing a 'tricky' piercing, I like the personal accomplishment of letting an individual I trust explicitly take a scalpel to my wang (in the case of my implants)... How many reasons do you need? really?

I've always, personally, been very into self-exploration of both weaknesses, strengths and boundaries. I have used piercing (both permenant and play) to realise, break through and expand these boundaries.

Please...If you still insist on being facetious, I can provide even more reasoning and feeling behind my modifications for you to dismiss with a wave of your hand and a comment of "Yeah but I don't get it!"...You never will.

*n
 
penski said:
I like the personal accomplishment of letting an individual I trust explicitly take a scalpel to my wang (in the case of my implants)

Dude, that's some serious trust, mrs f has to trim her nails before she comes near mine ;) :D
 
fatiain said:
Dude, that's some serious trust, mrs f has to trim her nails before she comes near mine ;) :D

He's one of the most knowledgable, talented and confident mod artists I have ever met and a close personal friend...I wouldn't let anyone else do it.

Lets just say that having a willy like a cobblers' thumb* for two days is well worth it.

*n

*For those that don't get it: Imagine hitting your thumb with a hammer all day...How swollen and bruised would it be?
 
I can't link to it directly as I'll get a holiday from the forums but here's BME's press release regarding the topic:

The alleged piercing-related death of a teen in Canada

Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn’t do than by the ones you did so. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
- Mark Twain

A seventeen-year-old girl in Newfoundland, Canada (at Booth Memorial High School in St. John’s) arrived at the hospital apparently suffering from a system-wide infection (“medical problems that were quite complex”). Two days later she died, and the staphylococcus infection that did it is currently being linked to a nipple piercing received some time earlier, even though no evidence of this link has been found yet. Chief Medical Examiner Dr. Simon Avis appears to be implying that the teen deserved what she got and that the Newfoundland government feels that giving pierced people medical care might be a mistake,

“This is health dollars that are essentially wasted treating infections that shouldn’t have occurred because of some desire to have a piece of metal sticking out of your body. It doesn’t make much sense to me.”

An investigation to more conclusively pinpoint piercing as the cause is underway.


Can piercing lead to death and in what circumstances?

It is true that you can get an infection from a piercing that kills you. However, it is also true that you might die from the same type of infection after getting a paper cut — freak accidents do happen, and any minor breach of your skin increases the chances. Piercing jewelry (or sutures in the case of an injury) slightly increase this risk because they give bacteria a place to anchor, but the risk of a fatal infection in body piercing is still less than one in a million. To put that into context (and I will do so in more detail later), a pierced person is significantly more likely to be struck by lightning than to develop a fatal infection from that piercing (and as a point of amusing trivia, there is a case of a pierced woman who was struck by lightning, but was saved from injury by her navel ring which diverted the electrical flow... but I digress).

In addition, if a serious infection does set in, in most cases the infection should be obvious visually around the piercing. Especially in the case of a female nipple piercing, physical symptoms of the infection can be easily seen and felt, so it is very rare for these simple-to-treat infections to progress to something life threatening. The majority of the deaths that have occurred have involved secondary factors such as willful ignorance to recommended aftercare and ongoing complications, or even underlying medical conditions making piercing inadvisable (such as some types of heart defects).

It should also be noted that the bacteria that is usually responsible for these infections lives on everyone’s skin and we come in contact with it daily — while it is theoretically possible to contract an infection at the studio during the initial placement, it is very unusual because all reputable studios have sterility control measures in place. Infections are usually contracted much later, “in the wild”, which is why piercees are given aftercare sheets instructing them on how to minimize these risks.

So yes, it is in extreme cases possible for a piercing to have fatal complications, but it truly requires one-in-a-million bad luck, and rarely involves the studio.


Comparisons and Statistics

According to the US Consumer Product Safety Commission (cpsc.gov), children’s push scooters lead to nearly a hundred thousand hospital visits (mostly fractures) a year, including about twenty deaths. Bicycles add half a million hospital visits and almost a thousand fatalities. The National Athletic Trainer’s Association (nata.org) reports that nearly one in fifty students actually require surgery due to high school sports injuries. The National SAFE KIDS Campaign and the American Academy of Pediatrics point out that three million children fourteen and under are injured at school every year (about one in five). According to a study in Physician and Sportsmedicine, nearly forty students die from immediate injuries sustained during high school sports recreation.

According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (nhtsa.dot.gov), almost four thousand teenage drivers are killed per year (a quarter of them drunk at the time, but the leading cause is simple driver error). Almost half of these crashes involved other teens in the car, and I haven’t included those death numbers... And of course if you include adults in the statistics, you have about fifty thousand corpses.

Or how about circumcision? According to the British Journal of Surgery, between one in fifty and one in ten circumcisions develop complications, and in the US, as many as two hundred and fifty infants die per year from elective circumcisions. Include adult cosmetic surgery and again you add many thousands more injuries and deaths. Where is the government and medical outrage for all of the injuries and deaths resulting from kids on scooters, circumcisions, needless road trips, and football games?

I can go on and on, but the point is that there are many activities which are recreational and optional in nature that are extremely dangerous for both adults and children that we accept because we have been culturally conditioned to do so. We could make them much more safe, or eliminate them entirely, but we don’t. In order to make rational decisions that respect both a reasonable allocation of political time and money, and also the civil rights of the people affected — while still protecting the public from harm — we have to step back and be objective and fair.


Civil rights issues involved

Dr. Avis’s statement that treating the infections that pierced people occasionally get is a waste of tax money is making the statement that pierced people do not deserve the same rights under the law as other Canadians. Dr. Avis is lucky that he’s in Newfoundland rather than Ontario, because if he made that statement in Ontario, he could find himself on the end of a Human Rights lawsuit — I believe his statement is a low-grade hate crime, and certainly very inappropriate for a government official to make.

In general people get piercings because they like them, and because it’s a cultural element of the group they are affiliated with. The Ontario Human Rights Commission points out that “minority group” goes beyond genetic race, and includes “specific traits and attributes, which are connected in some way to racialized people and are deemed to be ‘abnormal’ and of less worth [than the mainstream’s]”, and that these traits include clothing, grooming, leisure, and so on. They go on to warn that government policies and activities include subtle but systematic discrimination, just like we’re seeing in this case.

It is also important to point out that as Canadians we enjoy not just freedom of speech and religion, but literally freedom of expression, which includes the right to be a pierced and tattooed person should you desire it. So not only are the statements (and actions in first demonizing the piercing) of Dr. Avis potentially hate crimes, they are also veiled violations of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms (Constitution Act, 1982).


In Conclusion

It should go without saying that the freak death of this student is a tragic event that we all wish never happened. But, the truth is that freak accidents do happen all the time, and all we can do is mourn and move on, and be reminded that even though piercing seems safe we always need to stay focused on cleanliness and health both during and after the piercing. Put in context, realizing that these deaths are extremely rare underscores the fact that body piercing is actually incredibly safe, and of all the activities a teen could choose for themselves, is one of the ones we need to worry about least of all.

What is disturbing is the discriminatory response and official commentary. Because this case involves body piercing, an activity that is loved by perhaps one in ten Canadians but not really understood by the rest, the involvement seems to immediately call out the angry pitch-fork wielding crowd seeking to find a monster to scapegoat... all the while forgetting the fact that they ignore (and permit) the risks of radically more dangerous (and also avoidable) activities.

In conclusion, please understand that while deaths can happen from piercing, they can happen from most activities, and looking at things objectively, piercing is one of the safest activities a person can undertake. As Canadians, we have the legal right to do so, and the right to have our government and health services support us. It is my sincere hope that I am misinterpreting Dr. Avis’s statements or that he has been misquoted. As a Canadian, I feel very strongly that it is the responsibiltiy of a government official to work hard to protect all Canadians, even those whose mode of expression and culture they do not understand, or perhaps even find personally repugnant or nonsensical.

I just hope Dr. Avis and the Government of Canada agree.


Shannon Larratt

*n
 
DRZ said:
To my mind (at the moment) having multiple rings/bars through various parts of you isnt that far removed from cutting yourself.

I use to cut myself because I loathed myself so much I wanted to cut the fat off my body.

I have piercings and tattoos because I like the way they look on me, and for someone who has done the above, having anything you like about your body, no matter how small, is a good way to stop loathing it as much.

DRZ said:
Its no coincidence that at least 75% of the people I have met with piercings/tats have veiwpoints that are at odds with what is "normal" or "sensible", have an air of pseudo-intelligence about them and often seek to belittle people that do not conform to their rejection of "normality".

You met me at the BBQ meet - do I fall into this "category" of yours? If I do, then how? I'm interested to know how other people see me so anyone can answer that if they want :)
 
Had an eye brow bar, liked it so I wanted one that was untill it got infected when I had the flu and it went insanely itchy so took it out.

Took it out never looked back and thought well at least I did that.

Tatoos aren't my thing, reason being I would change my mind about liking it so would probably hate it after a few months.

Personally as for appealing to other gender and vice versa, I don't find tatoos on some women appealing, some people it suits some it don't. Piercings on women I do like particularly nose studds and maybe the chin, must the whole 'unique alternative look'. Depends on the girl and how many chins shes got, least the better. One rather large lady once showed me her belly piercing it was like the parting of the red sea buried at the bottom of a few rolls there it was sadly didn't look good, well you couldn't see it!
 
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eXSBass said:
Either way the human body wasn't designed to be pierced by sharp objects, painful or not.

What do you mean designed? Where we designed to fly? Or to walk on the Moon?

eXSBass said:
Nope, I disagree. Healing and immune response is exactly that, a response to a wound however small it may be.
I originally said the human body wasn't designed to be pierced by sharp objects. This I believe is proven through the fact that you get pains when the body is pierced by sharp objects :)

And giving birth hurts too, should we not have kids because it hurts?

Dude if you don't like piercings fair enough but to suggest that we shouldn't get them because they hurt or because we where not designed for it is a bit daft...

This is health dollars that are essentially wasted treating infections that shouldn’t have occurred because of some desire to have a piece of metal sticking out of your body. It doesn’t make much sense to me

What?! Is he a retard or what? Should we not treat people after a failed suicide because they wanted to die? Should we not treat a skydiver because he shouldn't jump? I am all up for freedome of expression, but when a doctor says that they are wasting money (trying to) cure people that's just sick.
 
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Noxis said:
Is that an admission to having a prince albert and playing with it makes you happy and *feel* good ;)

AHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I really hope she doesn't have a ****, I mean, blackstar a chick with ****? Pwnage! :D
 
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