Declining attitude to law and order

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BowdonUK said:
Firstly you are offended as the rest of your reply indicates. Out of interest what language would you use instead of black, blacks or black people?

Secondly if you don't know what the meaning of the initials NAACP is then as I said before, look it up. The point I was making is that if you're offended by the term "blacks" then you would definately be offended by the CP in NAACP.

Replying to posts like this is like explaining a joke.
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Ugh. Painful stuff.

First off, "the rest of my reply" was a question mark.

:rolleyes:

You claim to be able to determine absolutely from a question mark that that I'm offended? Wow.

In terms of language, it's fairly simple. Using Black as an adjective is fine. Using it as a noun shows something about you.

I know what the CP in NAACP stands FOR, thanks - it's a shame you couldn't commit a bit more thought. To help you along in your thinking (it's less like explaining a joke and more like pulling teeth) the C is the adjective (= fine).

So that's another mistake of yours - I'm not "definately offended by the CP."

The fact you're oblivious to all this, and can't see it even when assisted - well, as I say, it allows people to gauge the sort of person you are. (Accusations of racism are more clamped down on here than racism itself, so I'll leave it at that).
 
garnett said:
..zipped..
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I'm not sure if you come on to these threads to distract people from the conversation and attempt to sound intelligent. It's not working. If you weren't offended why post the question? Then your follow up;

garnett said:
just highlighting the sort of language people like him use and people like you defend - because it's helpful for people to gauge you.
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Who are those people? If you're not offended by the term then 1. why question it? and 2. why say "people like" as though you are distinguishing yourself from 'those people'?

It's nothing to do with adjectives and nouns. You're not the grammar police. This is the real world and how real people talk and write. It looks like you're just looking for some fake outrage.

I've noticed you arent that constructive in most of the threads I've seen you in. You're always pushing the 'them vs us' dynamics instead of coming up with the solutions to the threads issues.

But I must admit I enjoy our clashing of world views in a constructive way, as well as with a few other people I've crossed paths with on here. All good fun.
 
BowdonUK said:
I agree he's ethnically racially white. @krooton seems to be saying there is a Japanese race. A person can't be of two races.

Japan apparently was founded in 660 BC. Before that date there was no Japanese race?
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Race and ethnicity are intrinsically linked, nationality not-so-much.

So you can be Asian, of Japanese ethnicity, whilst also being British as you were born in the UK.

But you are tangenting as hard as possible to divert away from your lack of awareness as to why referring to someone as a colour is in poor form.

Strider's original poke at you was essentially asking if you called Japanese people 'yellows', a playful reductio ad absurdum to show you why 'blacks' isn't exactly kosher.
 
krooton said:
Race and ethnicity are intrinsically linked, nationality not-so-much.

So you can be Asian, of Japanese ethnicity, whilst also being British as you were born in the UK.

But you are tangenting as hard as possible to divert away from your lack of awareness as to why referring to someone as a colour is in poor form.

Strider's original poke at you was essentially asking if you called Japanese people 'yellows', a playful reductio ad absurdum to show you why 'blacks' isn't exactly kosher.
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Yet black is? Do you see the ridiculousness in that?
 
Dis86 said:
Yet black is? Do you see the ridiculousness in that?
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Because a lot of black people don't really know their origins or heritage for various reasons, like having ancestors thrown into ships to be transported across the world. So black becomes the catchall.
 
krooton said:
Race and ethnicity are intrinsically linked, nationality not-so-much.

So you can be Asian, of Japanese ethnicity, whilst also being British as you were born in the UK.

But you are tangenting as hard as possible to divert away from your lack of awareness as to why referring to someone as a colour is in poor form.

Strider's original poke at you was essentially asking if you called Japanese people 'yellows', a playful reductio ad absurdum to show you why 'blacks' isn't exactly kosher.
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I understand what you're saying in the first part. I think we're coming to the same issue from different directions. I can understand what you are saying from the Asian view. But in western society that would be deemed as racist e.g. if I said "Britain is a white country" there would be people calling me racist. But if I said "Japan is an Asian country" nobody would say anything. I'm trying to get consistancy across the world in the way we talk about countries, people and races.

As for the lack of awareness is a bit of an odd comment considering that being black is a way that ethnic group identifies itself. One of the purposes of the march was for black pound day. Other ethnic groups don't identify themselves as a colour. I'm not lacking awareness when "blacks" was used. But its very reasonable to think if the roles were reversed and this forum was mostly BAME people that we would be referred to as "whites".

I've never heard Japanese people, or any other Asian people, refer to themselves as 'yellows'. So it would be racist for anyone else to do so.
 
Janesy B said:
Because a lot of black people don't really know their origins or heritage for various reasons, like having ancestors thrown into ships to be transported across the world. So black becomes the catchall.
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What's that got to do with Black being OK but Blacks being terrible?
 
BowdonUK said:
I understand what you're saying in the first part. I think we're coming to the same issue from different directions. I can understand what you are saying from the Asian view. But in western society that would be deemed as racist e.g. if I said "Britain is a white country" there would be people calling me racist. But if I said "Japan is an Asian country" nobody would say anything. I'm trying to get consistancy across the world in the way we talk about countries, people and races.
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I doubt anyone would attack you for saying that Britain is a majority white country, as that is the truth. Saying "Britain is a white country" has subtext, implying that non-whites don't belong here, and is a classic racist (intentional or otherwise) dog whistle.

As for the lack of awareness is a bit of an odd comment considering that being black is a way that ethnic group identifies itself. One of the purposes of the march was for black pound day. Other ethnic groups don't identify themselves as a colour. I'm not lacking awareness when "blacks" was used. But its very reasonable to think if the roles were reversed and this forum was mostly BAME people that we would be referred to as "whites".
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Saying 'I am black' is not the same as saying 'I am a black', which I have never heard a black person say.

I've never heard Japanese people, or any other Asian people, refer to themselves as 'yellows'. So it would be racist for anyone else to do so.
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Do you think black people ever called themselves black before we gave them the title?
 
krooton said:
I doubt anyone would attack you for saying that Britain is a majority white country, as that is the truth. Saying "Britain is a white country" has subtext, implying that non-whites don't belong here, and is a classic racist (intentional or otherwise) dog whistle.



Saying 'I am black' is not the same as saying 'I am a black', which I have never heard a black person say.



Do you think black people ever called themselves black before we gave them the title?
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Stating a fact is now subtext?

I guess if you have an agenda you can find subtext anywhere.

For example I listen to a rap song, am I hearing subtext, fact or just pure bile?
 
krooton said:
I doubt anyone would attack you for saying that Britain is a majority white country, as that is the truth. Saying "Britain is a white country" has subtext, implying that non-whites don't belong here, and is a classic racist (intentional or otherwise) dog whistle.



Saying 'I am black' is not the same as saying 'I am a black', which I have never heard a black person say.



Do you think black people ever called themselves black before we gave them the title?
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Who gave us the 'title' of white? I'm pretty sure worse names were used for black people and black was chosen as being none offensive.
 
BowdonUK said:
I'm not sure if you come on to these threads to distract people from the conversation and attempt to sound intelligent. It's not working. If you weren't offended why post the question? Then your follow up;



Who are those people? If you're not offended by the term then 1. why question it? and 2. why say "people like" as though you are distinguishing yourself from 'those people'?

It's nothing to do with adjectives and nouns. You're not the grammar police. This is the real world and how real people talk and write. It looks like you're just looking for some fake outrage.

I've noticed you arent that constructive in most of the threads I've seen you in. You're always pushing the 'them vs us' dynamics instead of coming up with the solutions to the threads issues.

But I must admit I enjoy our clashing of world views in a constructive way, as well as with a few other people I've crossed paths with on here. All good fun.
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So distinguishing yourself from someone else means you've taken offense at what they've said? Bizarre reasoning.

I'm not offended by the language - I'm just flagging it - and what it says about those who use it and defend it.

Ultimately I'm just pointing out the weak thinking needed to maintain xenophobic and other fallacious world views.
 
krooton said:
I doubt anyone would attack you for saying that Britain is a majority white country, as that is the truth. Saying "Britain is a white country" has subtext, implying that non-whites don't belong here, and is a classic racist (intentional or otherwise) dog whistle.
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I'm not so sure that people wouldn't find it racist to say a majority white country. When it comes to race it seems to be a trigger for some. I understand that when its factually correct it shouldnt be seen as offensive.

krooton said:
Saying 'I am black' is not the same as saying 'I am a black', which I have never heard a black person say.
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I've not heard people speak like that either. But I have heard people say "us blacks", or "us whites". I just typed we blacks in to google and up popped many links, a couple of them are Amazon books from black authors;

What We Blacks Need To Do: The First Book in a Three Book Series
https://www.amazon.co.uk/What-We-Blacks-Need-Do/dp/1434346978

We The Blacks
https://www.amazon.co.uk/We-Blacks-Zach-Tate/dp/0998402699

And an interesting opinion post by a black writer;

We, Blacks Are Our Own Worst Enemy
https://medium.com/@brnbalenda/we-blacks-are-our-own-worst-enemy-431aa99479b9

krooton said:
Do you think black people ever called themselves black before we gave them the title?
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I don't know. I don't think any ethnic group would refer to their skin colour until they met someone of a different race that wasn't the same skin colour.

garnett said:
So distinguishing yourself from someone else means you've taken offense at what they've said? Bizarre reasoning.

I'm not offended by the language - I'm just flagging it - and what it says about those who use it and defend it.

Ultimately I'm just pointing out the weak thinking needed to maintain xenophobic and other fallacious world views.
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So you say you haven't taken offense yet you are pointing out that people, in your view, who say it are xenophobic and have other fallacious world views?

You're doing some amazing mental gymnastics to both not be offended and offended in the same post.

This is getting off the topic of the thread.
 
BowdonUK said:
So you say you haven't taken offense yet you are pointing out that people, in your view, who say it are xenophobic and have other fallacious world views?

You're doing some amazing mental gymnastics to both not be offended and offended in the same post.
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Why is offence the only reaction you can imagine? Racism is just weak thinking in support of a flawed prejudiced worldview. I'm not offended by it - It's just that whichever society it exists within is better off without it, and better off educating its population to a point where they're not vulnerable to that sort of weak thinking.

By the way it's hilarious that you've picked up on Black writing that intentionally references the racism in the use of Black as a noun, and mistakenly try to use it in defence of that language.

Whooooff - that went straight over your head.
 
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