Degree Apprenticeship vs Computer Science from Top 20

tom_e said:
He's getting a degree either way, he just gets 5 years work experience as well with the apprenticeship.
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From the OP, It sounded like it wouldn't be a computer science degree?

Out of interest, do city finance firms accept applicants with a Digital & Technology Solutions degree from Man Met / Aston?

Not saying he'd want to join a city finance firm but they're a good yard stick.
 
I do Mechanical Engineering in a RG Uni, (UON). I too could have gone straight into industry by doing an apprenticeship, I chose the Uni life style over it because an apprenticeship is just work experience. Which you will get once you finish Uni anyway. I don't regret coming to Uni one bit, met some great people and it's a different style of living it's great.

My advice would be go to Uni, you do a year in industry, get internships over summer. It's not like you will leave uni without industry experience unless you don't try. There is no harm in pushing back the start of your career.
 
Snookums said:
I do Mechanical Engineering in a RG Uni, (UON). I too could have gone straight into industry by doing an apprenticeship, I chose the Uni life style over it because an apprenticeship is just work experience. Which you will get once you finish Uni anyway. I don't regret coming to Uni one bit, met some great people and it's a different style of living it's great.

My advice would be go to Uni, you do a year in industry, get internships over summer. It's not like you will leave uni without industry experience unless you don't try. There is no harm in pushing back the start of your career.
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Except the impressive amount of debt students in England now accumulate?
 
Anecdotal evidence, but everyone I know who went on an apprenticeship is in a solid job, over £30k, at 21. In contrast, half of the people I keep in touch from university haven't even got a job yet. I went for a masters because my degree didn't set me up for anything, it literally was a ticket to apply (although I think I did well at the IBM interview, I kinda told them I was going on to a masters and wouldn't be available this year).

University is fun, and an experience, but I am wondering if I'd have been better off with the apprenticeship.
 
Personally I don't see your decision as straight forward as some of the others on this board. The benefit of going to a very good university is exposure to topics that (if you're very talented) will push you into the cutting edge of technology, and with as much respect as possible lower ranked universities don't tend to offer that. People talk about the Russell Group Unis and just think it's a prestige thing but it's really a group of Uni's that get the most research funding which is why studying at them gives you access those cutting edge topics. That said this only really matters if you're very academic (to be honest more aimed at the straight A students than a straight B student like OP). If you just want to a bog standard computer science degree and don't need the motivation of the more advanced research elements then the apprentice scheme looks great.

Personally I'd do the apprentice scheme, it's not worth the extra cash to go to a RG uni if you're at the BBB level. Just imo.
 
Snookums said:
I do Mechanical Engineering in a RG Uni, (UON). I too could have gone straight into industry by doing an apprenticeship, I chose the Uni life style over it because an apprenticeship is just work experience. Which you will get once you finish Uni anyway. I don't regret coming to Uni one bit, met some great people and it's a different style of living it's great.

My advice would be go to Uni, you do a year in industry, get internships over summer. It's not like you will leave uni without industry experience unless you don't try. There is no harm in pushing back the start of your career.
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He will also not be 30k + in debt....

There is no substitute especially in engineering in my opinion better than experience. This just not mean getting projects done, but having to look after yourself i.e getting to work on time, pulling your weight when people depend on you. Mech eng is my field and employed both. Those that have done a apprenticeship wipe the floor with straight uni students in every aspect of the job and I have employed both.

Trust me get your degree keep at your qualifications, do any course they throw at you and within the first 2 years and you will be a far better candidate than any uni student that has just spent 4-5 years ****ing it up the wall.
 
ultralaser said:
Personally I don't see your decision as straight forward as some of the others on this board. The benefit of going to a very good university is exposure to topics that (if you're very talented) will push you into the cutting edge of technology, and with as much respect as possible lower ranked universities don't tend to offer that. People talk about the Russell Group Unis and just think it's a prestige thing but it's really a group of Uni's that get the most research funding which is why studying at them gives you access those cutting edge topics. That said this only really matters if you're very academic (to be honest more aimed at the straight A students than a straight B student like OP). If you just want to a bog standard computer science degree and don't need the motivation of the more advanced research elements then the apprentice scheme looks great.

Personally I'd do the apprentice scheme, it's not worth the extra cash to go to a RG uni if you're at the BBB level. Just imo.
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Sorry, I don't follow - you're talking RG being most funded in terms of research, except when I am BBB level I won't be able to take advantage of it?

My other offers are AAA, as I've said, I've managed to get myself on a lower entry course by doing a summer school (1 week), it would have been AAB but it was lowered to BBB because I consented to participate in the summer school next year (they'd give me £500 exrta per year in bursary and lowered entry for just doing a summer week, no brainer really). I acheived AAC at AS but will most likely go on to get something like A*A*B or something.. I have ABB predictions but I tend to play the exam game well. I don't really enjoy my subjects, but I'm pragramtic about things and have decided that it wasn't worth me changing them, it worked out OK though as I did get 2As. That being said I spent most of my AS year not doing any work, I could probably achieve higher but I'm not motivated enough (as is apparant from my predictions), and probably from the fact I don't do what I enjoy. I'm not a poor performing student, its just I would rather go to Newcastle as it is close to me and I like it (the addition of it also having lower entry of BBB is fantastic), but I do have places like Nottingham open at AAA. Don't see the point of going to somewhere that's harder to get in when I dislike it more than Newcastle.

What bothers me about the apprenticeship is the degree - Digital & Technology Solutions, to me, is what seems like a mickey mouse degree, that will get thrown away by any reputable employer: I'm here on OcUK to help validate or counter these concerns. I'll be honest, I would like to do the Apprenticeship but I am leaning more towards the degree as I definetly don't know what area of CS I would go into (rather let me decide than my employer, as would be with my Apprenticeship), and also the added comfort of networking with like-minded friends and working on projects with groups of people similar to me. I think the apprenticeship is something that is attractive to me if I mess up my exams, wrongly predict something and get ****** grades. If I end up with BCC I will probably go down the Apprenticeship route, which is why I'm applying now, ahead of time, to secure as an unofficial insurance to university.
 
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Trojan Horse said:
What bothers me about the apprenticeship is the degree - Digital & Technology Solutions, to me, is what seems like a mickey mouse degree, that will get thrown away by any reputable employer
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Honestly, it sounds a bit like a mickey mouse degree, although I haven't dinged any CVs for degree institution or title yet (although I've also never been on the receiving end of a few hundred CVs for a job).
 
As others have shown in this thread, you will probably be ok either way if you work hard and aren't a complete tool to work with or for.

The one advantage a RG university degree will give you is getting past the "badge snob" HR filter in some places - however my experience from that type who've approached me over the years is they are full of people I really don't want to be around. You may be of a different opinion :)
 
drakioned said:
Honestly, it sounds a bit like a mickey mouse degree, although I haven't dinged any CVs for degree institution or title yet (although I've also never been on the receiving end of a few hundred CVs for a job).
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I've reviewed CVs as part of my role (though not at my current employer) and even at a more junior level (£30-35k) it is extremely difficult to find people who are a) good at their job and b) a good fit for your organisation. Industry certs matter to some places, especially IT Resellers who need people at a certain level to retain their partner status but academic qualifications are a very, very distant consideration compared to these two.

I expect there are organisations out there who are 'blessed' with the ability to be able to pick and choose people based on the perceived quality of the University the candidates attended. Back in the real world, its actually remarkably difficult to find good people!
 
DRZ said:
I expect there are organisations out there who are 'blessed' with the ability to be able to pick and choose people based on the perceived quality of the University the candidates attended. Back in the real world, its actually remarkably difficult to find good people!
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I am afraid, this is nothing but the truth :)
 
I don't disagree that it's remarkably difficult to find people, however I have seen first hand a Cambridge degree opening doors and colleagues arguing to ding candidates for where their degrees are from.

I think it's misleading to claim that it doesn't happen in the "real" world.

Now you can argue that any company that does this isn't a company you want to work for, but that's neither here nor there.
 
Have replied to your trust. :)

The degree is created between CG and Aston University picking some very good modules which aid with a lot of the work you do on a day to day basis, the first modules have been very good so far albeit challenging, it does test your time management and eagerness. However, I won't go into too much detail about it on here.

:p
 
Trojan Horse said:
Sorry, I don't follow - you're talking RG being most funded in terms of research, except when I am BBB level I won't be able to take advantage of it?

My other offers are AAA, as I've said, I've managed to get myself on a lower entry course by doing a summer school (1 week), it would have been AAB but it was lowered to BBB because I consented to participate in the summer school next year (they'd give me £500 exrta per year in bursary and lowered entry for just doing a summer week, no brainer really). I acheived AAC at AS but will most likely go on to get something like A*A*B or something.. I have ABB predictions but I tend to play the exam game well. I don't really enjoy my subjects, but I'm pragramtic about things and have decided that it wasn't worth me changing them, it worked out OK though as I did get 2As. That being said I spent most of my AS year not doing any work, I could probably achieve higher but I'm not motivated enough (as is apparant from my predictions), and probably from the fact I don't do what I enjoy. I'm not a poor performing student, its just I would rather go to Newcastle as it is close to me and I like it (the addition of it also having lower entry of BBB is fantastic), but I do have places like Nottingham open at AAA. Don't see the point of going to somewhere that's harder to get in when I dislike it more than Newcastle.

What bothers me about the apprenticeship is the degree - Digital & Technology Solutions, to me, is what seems like a mickey mouse degree, that will get thrown away by any reputable employer: I'm here on OcUK to help validate or counter these concerns. I'll be honest, I would like to do the Apprenticeship but I am leaning more towards the degree as I definetly don't know what area of CS I would go into (rather let me decide than my employer, as would be with my Apprenticeship), and also the added comfort of networking with like-minded friends and working on projects with groups of people similar to me. I think the apprenticeship is something that is attractive to me if I mess up my exams, wrongly predict something and get ****** grades. If I end up with BCC I will probably go down the Apprenticeship route, which is why I'm applying now, ahead of time, to secure as an unofficial insurance to university.
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I wasn't having a go at your grades bud! Just saying that yes if your uber smart then a good university is good option, if I had a daughter or son expecting 4 A*'s I'd probably say going to university (and a good one) is a better bet than a apprentice program. I say that because I think it keeps a few doors open (academia for one and the fact that some of the best paying companies only do the milk round at top tier universities) and a better uni helps motivate the brighter students.

In your situation I'd run straight for the apprentice program and rip there hand off.
 
computer science degrees are generally useless after 2-3 years because the tech changes so frequently.

That said you are taught how yo do things right.

Industry teaches you to do things quickest

My degree has never been requested because I have over 5 years experience.

choose your career and see how each step would benefit.

Personally would say go with the experience. Job specs usually ask for 2-3 years for standard pay rate.
 
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