dont gamble on the whole "walking to 40k+ job as soon as you graduate" as on that day there will be tens of thousands of other graduates looking to do the exact same thing.
Degree Apprenticeship vs Computer Science from Top 20
- Thread starter Trojan Horse
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dont gamble on the whole "walking to 40k+ job as soon as you graduate" as on that day there will be tens of thousands of other graduates looking to do the exact same thing.
Well, this is why I mentioned in a previous post that part of your decision should be whether or not you want to live in London.
You can find those kind of schemes at the usual suspects: Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, JP Morgan, UBS, Barclays, HSBC, Credit Suisse, etc
It's also a mistake to think that the higher London salaries aren't "really" higher because the cost of living is higher. There's two major differences, the first is that pension contribution (i.e. both jobs London/non-London might have 10% pension, but London will be 10% of a higher salary), and the second is that whilst you pay more for a mortgage, you also get a house worth more.
From my limited knowledge with my own sector (not IT I hasten to add) the salary increase from living in London is greater than the increase in working hours and the associated living costs (I.e. on the balance you will be better off in London - but be prepared to work v hard!).
Yeah, those opportunities do exist (although those figures seem slightly on the high side to me) - but you've got to be in London and work like a dog. I'd rather live and work outside London and get a still decent salary but actually have some work/life balance.
To rent a comparable place to where I am now (still in the South) in London would cost me quadruple at least. The Tube would probably be cheaper than having a car annually, but I'd still want/need a car for getting out to places, so not much of a saving.
I grew up in London (Hampstead) so I do know the realities of living in London - not sure I'd want to go back there until I'm earning 6 figures or more and in a more "relaxed" role.
EDIT: Plus there's nothing to stop you joining a financial firm later on if you've got sufficient experience and reputation. Your apprenticeship will lead to a degree so again this is extra reason not to worry about it!
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Alright so I guess I'll ask a further to question.. What would the Big 4 rather hire?
In your opinions which candidate would Microsoft be more likely to hire?:
Candidate 1 (Degree Apprentice)
- 5 years Work Experience
- BSc in Digital & Technology Solutions
Candidate 2 (Computer Science Degree)
- 1 Year of Work Experience
- BSc in Computer Science
- 1/2 Summer Internships
- Lead Computing Society
Candidate 3 (MSc Computer Science)
- The same as Candidate 2 but with a Masters from Oxbridge in Computer Science
In your opinions which candidate would Microsoft be more likely to hire?:
Candidate 1 (Degree Apprentice)
- 5 years Work Experience
- BSc in Digital & Technology Solutions
Candidate 2 (Computer Science Degree)
- 1 Year of Work Experience
- BSc in Computer Science
- 1/2 Summer Internships
- Lead Computing Society
Candidate 3 (MSc Computer Science)
- The same as Candidate 2 but with a Masters from Oxbridge in Computer Science
candidate 3 could also be candidate 1....
and whats " Lead Computing Society" ? if you mean you were a member of a society during uni, yeah it counts for pretty much nothing
what is candidates 1 official degree?
because for our place candidate 1 would actually be
foundation degree-
hons degree
nvq level 3
nvq lvl 2
+numerous other qualifications.
+experience
+the ability to mention projects and systems they've worked with for 3 years.
you're also assuming your getting those internships/bother with them, and that you'll get a work placement.
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With reference to places like MS and Google which you seem to be interested in, it's not all about what's on a bit of paper you need to be a certain type of person to work in those places from what I've seen.
If you take Google for example yes it looks like a great place to work with games rooms, places to relax while you work etc. but on the flip side of that this is offered because they expect you to live to work.
If you take Google for example yes it looks like a great place to work with games rooms, places to relax while you work etc. but on the flip side of that this is offered because they expect you to live to work.
The 'big 4' don't care much about your path, only your current skills. All 3 of your scenarios would probably be enough to secure an interview (provided the experience of candidate 1 is relevant).
For reference I went to a mediocre uni and have a masters in Comp Sci. Getting a junior engineer role straight after graduation was easy. If you are halfway talented you won't struggle at all, especially around London. Whenever I dip my toes into the job market I tend to get swamped with interview requests. I had an interview at Microsoft (skype) when I had a year or so of experience.
For reference I went to a mediocre uni and have a masters in Comp Sci. Getting a junior engineer role straight after graduation was easy. If you are halfway talented you won't struggle at all, especially around London. Whenever I dip my toes into the job market I tend to get swamped with interview requests. I had an interview at Microsoft (skype) when I had a year or so of experience.
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Where did you get your BSc and where did you get your Masters?
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Thanks, I guess this is what I want to read. Also do people care about NVQ (2/3) or a Foundation degree when you have an Hons?
Any advice in applying for these Graduate Apprenticeship schemes?
Hull Uni - Worth noting that most of the people on the course stayed in the north after graduating and I can only think of a small handful that struggled to get employed (as developers).
I doubt it - a foundation degree is equivalent to the first 2 years of a degree.
(Unless perhaps it's in a different (but also relevant) subject)
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I seem to be getting a completely different response on reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerqu...ee_apprenticeship_vs_computer_science_at_top/
or the TSR. I think I do value OcUK opinions more though, most of the people that post here have actually been employed. Although, those that advise going to do straight CS at uni are younger and probably have a more current understanding of securing a job?
So... what do Apprentice recruiters look for in their candidates? What are the things I need to address in my application that the employers ultimately are always looking for in young software engineers?
https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerqu...ee_apprenticeship_vs_computer_science_at_top/
or the TSR. I think I do value OcUK opinions more though, most of the people that post here have actually been employed. Although, those that advise going to do straight CS at uni are younger and probably have a more current understanding of securing a job?
So... what do Apprentice recruiters look for in their candidates? What are the things I need to address in my application that the employers ultimately are always looking for in young software engineers?
Soldato
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Don't even bother with TSR. Also those replies on reddit don't appear to have understood your question.
depends on what they are, depending on the company the could each be in different subjects/areas thus making you a more rounded candidate,.
when applying for job mainly focusing on Y instead of saying i have a degree that's actually X but close, you can say i have my degree in X but i also have an NVQ/foundation degree in Y
I'd stick with the university route. Having said that, I don't know much about apprenticeships and I also recognise that university fees have increased since I went - I graduated in 2007 - paid about £1200-1500 a year tuition fees so about £5k all in per year inc board - but my experience says definitely go for the degree. We don't hire anyone without a degree, full stop (for better or worse).
I came out with a BSc in Computer Science and did not much different to most graduates - went into top tier finance firm in the city then onto a smaller trading company (best decision I ever made) and was on £60k+good bonuses by 24 + living in Sydney. I have since moved back to London and am now 30 yrs old and on significantly more. If you're good at what you do and are personable then you'll go far with computer science - don't believe anyone that says it's saturated, we are desperate for good software developers (keyword here is "good" - there are absolutely loads of average devs, we probably hire 1 in 200 prevetted applicants). Many may say I'm just lucky but the opportunities I went for were open to any good software developer. I have met a few others on the way and they are also doing well for themselves.
I came out with a BSc in Computer Science and did not much different to most graduates - went into top tier finance firm in the city then onto a smaller trading company (best decision I ever made) and was on £60k+good bonuses by 24 + living in Sydney. I have since moved back to London and am now 30 yrs old and on significantly more. If you're good at what you do and are personable then you'll go far with computer science - don't believe anyone that says it's saturated, we are desperate for good software developers (keyword here is "good" - there are absolutely loads of average devs, we probably hire 1 in 200 prevetted applicants). Many may say I'm just lucky but the opportunities I went for were open to any good software developer. I have met a few others on the way and they are also doing well for themselves.
Depends what you end up doing with either, really. The advice from both places doesn't necessarily disagree, just the perspective of the sources. A degree will open doors to jobs that need a degree, but you have to remember you aren't the only person with that idea, and competition will be high. A few years down the line, it'll be your experience that counts, not what or where the degree was from.
If you go the apprenticeship route, you may or may not get to open the same doors, however, a few years down the line, it's your experience that now counts and the world is again your oyster, and you have a degree anyway.
In both cases, only your relevant experience counts for driving your career long term. With the apprenticeship, you already have 5 years in a sort of relevant field even if you don't really like it and want to change. With the RG degree, you get to start where you want, or get a bit more exposure to different things to get a better idea but it's all much of a muchness and you have to decide which is more important to you... Then, there are all the other associated variables to think about like debt, partying (tbh, the folks on my course through that scheme partied as much as anyone else) etc.
If you go the apprenticeship route, you may or may not get to open the same doors, however, a few years down the line, it's your experience that now counts and the world is again your oyster, and you have a degree anyway.
In both cases, only your relevant experience counts for driving your career long term. With the apprenticeship, you already have 5 years in a sort of relevant field even if you don't really like it and want to change. With the RG degree, you get to start where you want, or get a bit more exposure to different things to get a better idea but it's all much of a muchness and you have to decide which is more important to you... Then, there are all the other associated variables to think about like debt, partying (tbh, the folks on my course through that scheme partied as much as anyone else) etc.
He's getting a degree either way, he just gets 5 years work experience as well with the apprenticeship.