Derek Chauvin murder trial (Police officer who arrested George Floyd)

[muon]

"A preliminary autopsy report cited earlier by prosecutors said the county medical examiner's review "revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation."

You did know this?

You are quoting this one. The very one they are using. So I don't get what you are actually saying.

You know in the same report

"Hennepin County Medical Examiner Andrew Baker will be a central figure. He ruled Floyd’s death a homicide, saying he died when his heart stopped as police restrained him, compressing his neck."

The report basically says it was a combination of factors which led to his death. Including the actions of the police officer.

You do know that the DA is not going to show the jury both findings.
I don't call that fair.

The only people that could argue not having the private autopsy shown is unfair, is George Floyd's family.

 

[deuse]

How does this help your argument the DA are manipulating things against the defendent? This helps the defendent by removing any notion of complete liability which will have to be argued against.

Also using private autopsies over (or even with) official ones makes no sense. The DA isn't there to present different theories. They are charging him on a single story.

Again.

You have to know the US system.
The DA will always go with one he wants.

IF he shows the 2, then that could make a jury change it's mind.
Buy asking which one is right.

 

[muon]

Again.

You have to know the US system.
The DA will always go with one he wants.

IF he shows the 2, then that could make a jury change it's mind.
Buy asking which one is right.

Which one is right? Is it Homicide or Homicide?

The DA obviously feels there is no point also attempting to go for worse charges than third degree murder or manslaughter.

There is no conspiracy here. They need to put forward a case supported by evidence (not just autopsies). Not just throw every theory into the ring.

 

[deuse]

Which one is right? Is it Homicide or Homicide?

The DA obviously feels there is no point also attempting to go for worse charges than third degree murder or manslaughter.

There is no conspiracy here. They need to put forward a case supported by evidence (not just autopsies). Not just throw every theory into the ring.

Last time.
You have to understand the US system.

I never said they was a "conspiracy" you did.
I'm just telling you what I think as a yank

I will lay it out for you.

"Dr. Allecia Wilson, one of the pathologists who conducted the independent autopsy, said Monday afternoon that Floyd died as a result of mechanical asphyxiation. "

"But the report released later Monday by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's office said Floyd died of "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression." The manner of death was ruled homicide, but the office noted that "is not a legal determination of culpability or intent." A preliminary autopsy report cited earlier by prosecutors said the county medical examiner's review "revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation."

Do you get it now? "Intent" is the word.

 

[muon]

Last time.
You have to understand the US system.

I never said they was a "conspiracy" you did.
I'm just telling you what I think as a yank

I will lay it out for you.

"Dr. Allecia Wilson, one of the pathologists who conducted the independent autopsy, said Monday afternoon that Floyd died as a result of mechanical asphyxiation. "

"But the report released later Monday by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's office said Floyd died of "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint and neck compression." The manner of death was ruled homicide, but the office noted that "is not a legal determination of culpability or intent." A preliminary autopsy report cited earlier by prosecutors said the county medical examiner's review "revealed no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxia or strangulation."

Do you get it now? "Intent" is the word.

Third degree murder and manslaughter doesn't require intent. In fact they are charges specifically which suggest there is no provable intent.

Your position is very confusing. You seem to be throwing everything against the wall.

 

[Deleted member 66701]

A statement which provides nothing to back up ones ability to understand and apply statistical tests. What's the working title of your thesis?

Immersive technologies: integrated delivery of education.

Its grounded in HCI. You don't do HCI research without understanding statistical tests.

 

[deuse]

Third degree murder and manslaughter doesn't require intent. In fact they are charges specifically which suggest there is no provable intent.

Your position is very confusing. You seem to be throwing everything against the wall.

It's you that's confused.

Have a great day and stay safe.

 

[muon]

It's you that's confused.

Have a great day and stay safe.

I think what has happened here is that you got caught out by the fact the official autopsy ruled it a homicide with culpability on the police officer. The one you have quoted multiple times.

Been digging a hole since.

Previously talked about how in the US the DA will use the autopsy that supports their theory which they believe they can prove. That's how every prosecution department in the whole world works. If the defence believes it will help them, they can use it.

Worse still they are actually using the one you keep quoting and is official.

You start pointing to intent as if it means something for the charges levelled.

You also keep raising the point that there was no asphyxiation. Well guess what, those aren't the charges, because you aren't the only person who has read the report.

 

[hurfdurf]

Let me re-read your posts, I probably have your position on this completely wrong.

You don’t, there’s something wrong with deuse. His posts are becoming increasingly erratic and don’t make sense.

He dived on me not realising I was conversing about the OJ Simpson trial (despite the flow of conversation being very clear) and when it was pointed out in this post

Derek Chauvin murder trial (Police officer who arrested George Floyd)

rather than admit he has misread something he just started posting entirely at random saying I was influenced by CNN and ending with this...

And I quoted you by telling facts.

I thought you said in a post you was going to keep yourself updated from now on?

edit



You can't even follow your own advice.
Your a troll

The guys clearly not well, his spelling and grammar is going down hill also. Not really worth interacting with.

I think what has happened here is that you got caught out by the fact the official autopsy ruled it a homicide with culpability on the police officer. The one you have quoted multiple times.

Been digging a hole since.

Indeed, its a pattern of his.

 

[Skunkworks]

The 2 sides in this thread come down to those that can think beyond the 9 minute video and those that can’t.

As usual there’s strong correlation with the resident wokies that run on uncontrollable emotions.

 

[deuse]

You don’t, there’s something wrong with deuse. His posts are becoming increasingly erratic and don’t make sense.

.

This comes from someone who wants to fight people in the forum.
They have a word for that. And normally comes with a white jacket.

 

[hurfdurf]

This comes from someone who wants to fight people in the forum.
They have a word for that. And normally comes with a white jacket.

When talking about physical restraint, the testing of physical restraints when two parties disagree on the issue, is highly appropriate and worth while. Sorry if that scares you, fear not, I’d never offer you out in the same way, I’m not sure you have the mental capacity to agree to something like that at the moment and I would feel some what responsible for you.

This is in comparison to @dowie and I who I would be more than happy to strangle because he and I can have a coherent discussion despite our differences.

I'd like to congratulate Hurf and Dowie on having a discussion on this subject that hasn't actually got the thread closed, it's been an interesting read!

 

[dowie]

Some updates on the Jury selection - they've agreed on 7 so far, the prosecution has rejected one potential juror and the defence has rejected 3, couple of others mentioned in this article have been dismissed for other reasons too.

https://www.startribune.com/day-end...-to-the-derek-chauvin-murder-trial/600033470/

When court adjourned for the day Friday, the jury so far includes one multiracial woman in her 20s, one Black man in his 30s, one Hispanic man in his 20s, a white woman in her 50s, and three white men, two in their 30s and one in his 20s.

[...]

The seventh juror seated is a single mother who is a high-level executive in the nonprofit sector focused on health care. She took the unusual move of summoning her own attorney to the courthouse.

At one point, the judge halted the live external feed and cleared the courtroom of everyone except the trial participants out of unspecified privacy concerns.

She told defense attorney Nelson that she had prior professional dealings with Attorney General Keith Ellison's office, but didn't know him personally. She later told prosecution attorney Steve Schleicher that "all of our interactions [with Ellison] were positive at the time" and would have no impact on her ability to be a fair juror.

[...]

The first jury candidate to be questioned Friday, a recent college graduate, carefully chose her words as she gave unwavering answers to probing questions.

She was asked about her ability to consider only the evidence presented at trial and not just the widely viewed video.

"What I saw as a human, that did not give me a good impression," said the woman, who disclosed that she participated in a social justice protest in Duluth in the time since Floyd died. "I just couldn't watch it anymore."

Defense attorney Eric Nelson followed with questions about her willingness to accept information about policies that guide police procedure and whether she was willing to listen to both sides. She assured Nelson that she would on both counts if seated. After a brief huddle with his legal team, he used a strike and had the woman dismissed.

[...]

The prosecution exercised one of its strikes and dismissed a prospective juror who served in the Army Reserve for eight years and was deployed to Iraq. He was questioned extensively about whether he could give equal weight to the testimony of police officers vs. bystanders at the scene.

"Being in the military, it's easy for bystanders to say how they would react in that situation," the man said, while insisting he would not give law enforcement an edge in credibility. He said the fact that Chauvin also served in the military would not affect his opinion.

This is in comparison to @dowie and I who I would be more than happy to strangle because he and I can have a coherent discussion despite our differences.

LOL thanks

I'm not sure what strangling would demonstrate here though - I suspect that a chokehold from some MMA enthusiast is rather different, if you were to put someone in the position where they'd need to tap out within 30 seconds or a minute or so lest they pass out then you'd not really be replicating what we saw even assuming some significant force was applied via Chauvin's knee - Floyd was conscious for around 9 minutes and taking at various points during the ordeal.

 

[hurfdurf]

I'm not sure what strangling would demonstrate here though - I suspect that a chokehold from some MMA enthusiast is rather different, if you were to put someone in the position where they'd need to tap out within 30 seconds or a minute or so lest they pass out then you'd not really be replicating what we saw even assuming some significant force was applied via Chauvin's knee - Floyd was conscious for around 9 minutes and taking at various points during the ordeal.

It's a common misconception that you can't talk when you can't breath. I think I could slowly choke you with my knee on your neck to the point where you would eventually go unconscious, whilst being able to talk throughout.

 

[dowie]

It's a common misconception that you can't talk when you can't breath. I think I could slowly choke you with my knee on your neck to the point where you would eventually go unconscious, whilst being able to talk throughout.

Well not really - I mean that's perhaps true for a very brief period of time if you're only able to exhale.

Given Floyd was saying "I can't breathe" before he was even on the floor then it's not clear at all that it was the restraint causing the issue. If there was significant pressure applied by the knee on his neck then sure, if not and he's in the recovery position (approximately) and simply being controlled/restrained then, while it might not be comfortable and he might still be distressed/anxious it isn't necessarily the cause.

 

[deuse]

Some updates on the Jury selection - they've agreed on 7 so far, the prosecution has rejected one potential juror and the defence has rejected 3, couple of others mentioned in this article have been dismissed for other reasons too.

https://www.startribune.com/day-end...-to-the-derek-chauvin-murder-trial/600033470/




LOL thanks

I'm not sure what strangling would demonstrate here though - I suspect that a chokehold from some MMA enthusiast is rather different, if you were to put someone in the position where they'd need to tap out within 30 seconds or a minute or so lest they pass out then you'd not really be replicating what we saw even assuming some significant force was applied via Chauvin's knee - Floyd was conscious for around 9 minutes and taking at various points during the ordeal.

"Juror #37." got me

"I'm going to focus on one issue and that's the presumption of innocence," Cahill said, addressing "Juror #37." "Do you think you could do that -- presume that he is innocent as you enter the courtroom?"

"I wouldn't like that verdict," she stated, before the judge interjected, "So if it if it was 'not guilty.'"

 

[Angilion]

It's a common misconception that you can't talk when you can't breath. I think I could slowly choke you with my knee on your neck to the point where you would eventually go unconscious, whilst being able to talk throughout.

Especially if dowie had taken enough opiates to kill themself, as Floyd had. Opiates suppress bodily functions, including breathing. Which might well be why Floyd was saying he couldn't breath before he was even on the ground let alone being knelt on.

 

[dowie]

"Juror #37." got me

"I'm going to focus on one issue and that's the presumption of innocence," Cahill said, addressing "Juror #37." "Do you think you could do that -- presume that he is innocent as you enter the courtroom?"

"I wouldn't like that verdict," she stated, before the judge interjected, "So if it if it was 'not guilty.'"

Yeah there have been a few dismissed without the prosecution or defence using any of their strikes - seems there are a few more instances of strikes being used mentioned in this NY Post article:

https://nypost.com/2021/03/11/six-j...derek-chauvin-trial-in-death-of-george-floyd/

“I’ve seen the video, so I can’t unsee it,” the woman, identified as prospective juror 37, told Hennepin County Judge Peter Cahill.

“Are you willing,” Chauvin attorney Eric Nelson asked, “or are you able to set what you know about this case now aside and judge this case based upon the evidence in court?”

“Like I mentioned before, there’s video surveillance, so I can’t unsee the video,” she said. “So I’m not able to set that part aside… It’s still going to be traumatizing to me”.
[...]
Another prospective juror, a music teacher, said he could approach the case “with a clean slate” — but conceded that he had gone to the scene of Floyd’s death and prayed with his wife, calling the site “holy ground” on social media.

So far three white men, a black man, a Hispanic man, and a woman of mixed race have been seated in the case, but Nelson has used 7 of the 15 challenges he is allowed.

Prosecutors have used 4 of the 9 that they are alloted.

Other prospective jurors have been dismissed by Cahill, and 18 others were dismissed without even being questioned, in many cases over answers they gave on a 16-page jury questionnaire that was sent to them in December.

The social media thing is rather awkward - thinking about the risk to the prosecution re: any appeals here, imagine some SJW type thinking they are doing good by making sure they get onto the Jury and they don't mention something like that, the identities of these people will be revealed eventually and then if something like that comes out - a juror having gone to a protest or gone to the site and called it "holy ground" or made some other comments on social media and it hadn't been mentioned then presumably, if Chauvin is convicted, then there become obvious grounds for appeal.

 

[Skunkworks]

It's a common misconception that you can't talk when you can't breath. I think I could slowly choke you with my knee on your neck to the point where you would eventually go unconscious, whilst being able to talk throughout.

Please stop this MMA expert/tough guy act. You're utterly clueless.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1202730327241822208

https://twitter.com/DonutOperator/status/1202730327241822208

 

[deuse]

Why do these people resist and run.

Just do as you are told and all will be ok.