Caporegime
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Because they don't want to go back to prison.
Derek Chauvin murder trial (Police officer who arrested George Floyd)
- Thread starter dowie
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Because they don't want to go back to prison.
Soldato
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Its how people get shot and killed. A police officer cannot risk being knocked out or someone going for the gun on their belt, as once they do its potentially game over. You will not convince a police officer of your innocence by resisting arrest or going for their gun.
The time to complain about their conduct is at the station with your lawyer.
The time to complain about their conduct is at the station with your lawyer.
If you act normally you can ask for the officer in charge for that shift, to come out and sort it out.
Soldato
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Some updates on the Jury selection - they've agreed on 7 so far, the prosecution has rejected one potential juror and the defence has rejected 3, couple of others mentioned in this article have been dismissed for other reasons too.
https://www.startribune.com/day-end...-to-the-derek-chauvin-murder-trial/600033470/
LOL thanks
I'm not sure what strangling would demonstrate here though - I suspect that a chokehold from some MMA enthusiast is rather different, if you were to put someone in the position where they'd need to tap out within 30 seconds or a minute or so lest they pass out then you'd not really be replicating what we saw even assuming some significant force was applied via Chauvin's knee - Floyd was conscious for around 9 minutes and taking at various points during the ordeal.
Young jurors are bad for the defence team. They want middle aged to retirement aged white non collage educated jurors. I'd imagine the prosecution will be trying to keep them from the jury.
Caporegime
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Maria 'karen' Rodriguez
This proves exactly my point? The guys talking throughout the choke, it’s only when it’s fully on does he tap but he’s still breathing. Plus it doesn’t even account for the fact an actual police officer itt has said the same thing as me iirc. It’s not me being a tough guy, I’m not tough, I just frequently choke people out and get chocked out.
Lots of people who have never gone hands on with someone commenting haven’t got a clue.
https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/...ng-able-to-talk-evidence-that-you-can-breathe
Imagine that you've been heavily and constantly brainwashed into thinking that the police all want to murder you because of your "race" and will murder you if they get a chance to do so. That brainwashing is bound to have at least some effect on your behaviour if the police stop you.
The people doing that brainwashing are probably aware of the fact that their actions will result in more "black" people dying, but that wouldn't bother them. They don't care about most of the times a "black" person is killed. What they care about is power, so if a death doesn't increase their power they don't care. An increase in the number of "black" people killed by the police is a good thing for BLM et alia.
That's on top of the usual reasons such as having something illegal on you, just panicking or having a normal human response to being restrained.
The thing with hindsight is, it cannot be known in advance.
Probs need a demotion in your username from Colonel Klinck to Captain Obvious
Anyway here is some data, interestingly opinions have shifted a fair bit since the BLM/Antifa hysteria last summer:
Last June:
https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/usa-today-protests-2020
More recent polling this month:
https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default...sat-ipsos_racial_injustice_topline_030421.pdf
Hennepin County itself is approx just under 2/3rd democrat voters, just under 1/3rd Republican voters and circa 8% independents.
2nd degree murder looks like a reach - manslaughter is quite plausible. 3rd degree also likely has a shot as of course does not guilty.
I don't think he will now. It's only murder if he killed him on purpose, but they aren't going to be able to proove it.
Soldato
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You literally, and I mean that in the true sense of the word, have to be breathing to make any kind of vocal sound. Also, notice that it took seconds, not 8+ minutes.
Indeed, but breathing and be able to power your vocal cords, does not mean you are breathing enough to stay alive.
Please see the killing of Eric Garner - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Eric_Garner
If you aren't going to believe me, maybe try listening to scientists and those that advise law enforcement like this police sergeant
https://www.lexipol.com/resources/b...For talking to occur, air,two words at a time.
Please stop trying to argue with me, you are wrong. I have sourced why I am correct and you are not. You have posted a tweet that didn't even prove your point.
Associate
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I mean you're just kinda confirming what I'm saying, which is that the optics are horrible and that has a strong emotional impact on people who are not trained to deal with these circumstances. Most people who are arrested and resist arrest have to be detained with the use of force and that's always distressing because you have an authority using force to detain an individual and that is never going to look good. And so bystanders are always going to be upset that this is happening, but it's necessary to enforce the rule of law and it only escalates to that degree when the perpetrator resists arrest. As a man it's particularly distressing to see women who are arrested and resist and then call out for help while they're wrestled to the ground, there's a strong natural instinct to intervene and help a person in distress. But in order to have a peaceful and safe society we need the rule of law and we need law enforcement, if you simply don't arrest people because it's distressing you can't enforce law. And so the argument that something is distressing is purely an emotional one, sure we all feel bad watching the video, but you have to engage your brain a bit in order to justify what is happening.
Well it's tricky because there's a replication crisis in the social science fields where many of the papers are simply never cited or attempted to be replicated, or fail replication when attempted. There's now a well documented problem in the social sciences of spreading ideology which is producing social justice activists, we saw it first with radical feminists which produced things like the pay gap argument that fails basic economic analysis. And then we started seeing things like social justice, black lives matter movement and a number of these other radical movements originate from these. 1 in 5 social science professors are openly marxists. And we're seeing a repeat of history where class theory in places like the soviet union was used as lens by which to see society and we've moved back to that oppressor/oppressed narrative with class theory baked into modern social science. At it's very core it comes down to blank slate theory, that humans are all innately the same and any differences in society are due to environmental effects. And so that's what backs feminist theory about the gender pay gap, the starting assumption that unless men and women are paid the same on average that there's a problem. And the same radical notion of equality also underlies the misinformation that policing and law enforcement are systemically racist.
If you're going to go on a nation wide witch hunt for racism that results in riots, arson, injuries, deaths and the obliteration of peoples businesses and livelihoods you better be really sure that what you're fighting for actually exists. Otherwise you're trapping a bunch of people together in this false narrative that one side is oppressing the other side and it results in conflict that will literally never end. And there's actually valid ways of going about this which means you need to look at the data carefully to see if there is genuine racism, SPOILER: basically no, there's not. There's racist individuals in the law enforcement and legal system who are not representative of the whole and who are typically weeded out and punished if they're caught.
I'm not a computer scientist and never stated as such. I actually work in IT but I've had far more education at this point in things like psychology and evolutionary biology and I'm interested in how that influences how people think and behave. There's real difference between people and groups of people which are reliably measurable and have predictive validity. And sadly we have extremely strong social movements attemtping to deny these things exist and then using differences in outcome to push that there's a serious systemic problems in society. And it's a narrative that needs challenging because as I said, if we accept that it's true and it turns out not to be true we lock ourselves into perpetual conflict which is bad for everyone.
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Soldato
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You keep claiming he was choked, and as soon as it’s demonstrated that choking results in inability to speak and unconsciousness within seconds, you pivot to breathing problems. Yes, he had breathing problems, but was never choked. Placing a knee on the back of someone’s neck with just enough force to stop them banging their head on the ground, either deliberately or as a reaction to drugs, does not choke someone.
A Fentanyl overdose on the other hand:
For those that haven't seen the full bodycam footage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkEGGLu_fNU
Some timestamps:
05:46 Officer asks if GF if he's "on something" and mentions mouth foam a couple of seconds later.
06:23 GF starts resisting and claims to be claustrophobic.
08:16 GF says "Imma die here".
08:54 GF's first mention of breathing.
09:03 GF says "I'll get on the ground, anything."
09:43 GF's first mention of "I can't breathe".
09:54 GF pushes himslf out of the back seat and says "I wanna lay on the ground".
10:15 GF before being placed on the ground claims he can't breathe. Bystander tells him to "just get in the car".
10:50 GF placed on the ground.
11:16 GF asks for his "momma".
12:05 Officer says "EMS are on the way".
13:22 GF says "I'm about to die".
13:28 Officer says "He's got to be on something".
13:48 Officer mentions PCP and "shaking of the eyes".
14:10 GF asks for water.
15:26 Officer says "move him on his side?"
15:36 GF's last mention of "I can't breathe".
16:24 Officer says "I think he's passing out". GF appears unconscious from this point.
19:13 Officers talking to EMS.
20:23 GF placed on gurney.
22:35 Officers question the other occupants of GF's car.
There's nothing racial, and the cops are very patient. The footage, toxicology report, plus the knee technique being in the literal training manual means, if fair, this is an open-and-shut case.
Did wonder about this - the city/Mayor made some serious mis-steps already, they sacked all officers without due process, they were pressuring the local prosecutor to come up with charges even though the prosecutor, quite sensibly, state the case would be difficult and now the massive (politically motivated) settlement which seems to have been made as some sort of grand virtue signalling gesture before the trial ironically has the potential to undermine it.
The Twitter account bad legal takes was mocking someone the other day for posting this out but it seems there is some risk here. Will they now need to re-question the already selected jurors, will they push for a new trial location (the settlement will have been bigger news locally), will it be something they leverage in a future appeal if Chauvin is found guilty?
https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021...-settlement-could-impact-derek-chauvin-trial/
The Twitter account bad legal takes was mocking someone the other day for posting this out but it seems there is some risk here. Will they now need to re-question the already selected jurors, will they push for a new trial location (the settlement will have been bigger news locally), will it be something they leverage in a future appeal if Chauvin is found guilty?
https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2021...-settlement-could-impact-derek-chauvin-trial/
Everyone I've shown the full bodycam footage to has changed their perspective, as did mine once i saw it.
The BLM movement may have legitimate concerns, however this incident was not really the best case that could be made for proving a systemic racist police force. The actual questions the footage raises are why so many people are living dysfunctional lives and abusing opioids? If the police never did anything racist again I don't believe it would make a jot of difference to some of the communities in the U.S. that are struggling.
The left has become obsessed with race as if it is the answer to solving all of society’s problems. They have totally lost their way in my opinion and need to look back to the past when they were more concerned with good housing, jobs and living wages. These are the things holding most people back. To tell them it's their race is a horrible lie to deflect form the far bigger problems that actually impact them. Those in charge and "the market" seem powerless to fix it, so it’s a simpler story for them to tell too.
The BLM movement may have legitimate concerns, however this incident was not really the best case that could be made for proving a systemic racist police force. The actual questions the footage raises are why so many people are living dysfunctional lives and abusing opioids? If the police never did anything racist again I don't believe it would make a jot of difference to some of the communities in the U.S. that are struggling.
The left has become obsessed with race as if it is the answer to solving all of society’s problems. They have totally lost their way in my opinion and need to look back to the past when they were more concerned with good housing, jobs and living wages. These are the things holding most people back. To tell them it's their race is a horrible lie to deflect form the far bigger problems that actually impact them. Those in charge and "the market" seem powerless to fix it, so it’s a simpler story for them to tell too.
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Man of Honour
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It changed mine and my wifes perspective last night so I linked it on Facebook and loads have changed their view.
This footage should have been released immediately.
Sounds like a drug overdose now. He was saying he couldnt breath because of that, not the cop's actions.
BLM have completely miss-interpreted it and jumped to conclusions. Not shocked. The claim looked dubious from the start. What a media circus.
BLM have completely miss-interpreted it and jumped to conclusions. Not shocked. The claim looked dubious from the start. What a media circus.
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