Derek Chauvin murder trial (Police officer who arrested George Floyd)

[StriderX]

Suggest a few people in this thread have a read of what he was actually convicted of. Second degree murder doesn't require an intent to kill. Its all summarised in the jury's instructions which are only a few pages long here.

Second-degree murder does require that, but the charge is explicitly Second-degree unintentional murder.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

Let me guess, you only believe in the justice system when it gives out results you agree with? I've really loved reading the armchair lawyer analysis on OCUK the last few weeks. Keep the entertaining posts coming.

This thread is classic OCUK it really is.

Hmm, this doesn't mesh with what this thread has been saying for weeks.....did you guys even pass the bar?

Correct decision. Now the momentum needs to be held to push for reform.

The only bar they could pass is on their way to the toilet in the pub.

 

[montymint]

2nd is still intentional though. No idea how they reached that conclusion.

Intent then, what ever it is, its BS. Looks like mob rule wins.

The Minnesota law (from googling) puts 2nd degree murder as:

Minnesota law prohibits intentional and unintentional killings under most circumstances. Those killings prohibited as second-degree murder include:

• Killing a human intentionally, but without premeditation (not thinking about or preparing for before)
• Killing a human while committing or attempting a drive-by shooting
• Causing someone’s death without intending the death of anyone, while committing a felony other than criminal sexual conduct (rape or sexual assault which would be first-degree murder) or a drive-by shooting
• Causing a death unintentionally, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict great physical harm on the victim when the murderer is currently restrained by a protection order (including for domestic violence, harassment, divorce, or any similar protection order) and the victim was the protected party in that order

So it's probably point 3, since he was assaulting the victim.

Edit, it's been pointed out in an earlier post - which contains a link to the charge presented to the jury.

 

[Enkore]

The right wing have deliberately and disingenuously interpreted the BLM's 'defund the police' idea. NO significant amount of people want to 'abolish the police'

Problem is that a lot of polarizing politicians ran with it too so it gave the idea legs.

 

[Nasher]

The right wing have deliberately and disingenuously interpreted the BLM's 'defund the police' idea. NO significant amount of people want to 'abolish the police'

No, BLM followers started saying abolish the police later on...

After they made that "no police" zone, which ended when they themselves accidently shot a load of black teenagers and a baby (where is the trial for that on TV)?

 

[pimper]

If I was cop in the US right now I would be handing in my badge, not worth the risk killing a black man it seems.

Fixed that for you

 

[dowie]

The right wing have deliberately and disingenuously interpreted the BLM's 'defund the police' idea. NO significant amount of people want to 'abolish the police'

Aside from a whole bunch of people... including those in the Seattle CHAS/CHOP zone you seemed rather fond of last summer.... it was a cop-free zone. Though, ironically, despite being a cop-free zone their "security" managed to shoot a couple of black teens and then promptly act to hide the evidence.

 

[Craterloads]

Good result, this vile murderer knew exactly what he was doing. Now to repeat this result for every racist murder committed by so called police.

 

[FortuitousFluke]

Care to elaborate on what the reform should be?

Where would you like me to start?

A review of dangerous methods of restraint.

Stricter penalties for police who cross the line in terms of violence towards suspects

Better training for police and a shift towards de-escalation rather than confrontation

Stricter regulations in relation to sentences and conditions levied by the court, many of which are unconstitutional

Better mental health support

An end to charge stacking

Just off the top of my head.

I know not all of these relate to the facts of this case but the US justice system is an absolute mess and needs top down reform in my view.

 

[dowie]

Unintentional murder did not require intent to kill but only intent to use force. Where intent to use force means applying force without permission. Not intent in the common sense.

I didn't claim it did, that doesn't negate the point.

 

[FoxEye]

The right wing have deliberately and disingenuously interpreted the BLM's 'defund the police' idea. NO significant amount of people want to 'abolish the police'

Just yesterday they had a chap on the BBC talking about sections of the community wanting to "abolish the police". I'm putting that in quotes because that was the word used.

It's odd that you're just hearing this and think I made it up.

e: It was a black dude too, I'm not sure what his political leaning was tho. He said he didn't agree with it but it was an idea that had gained some vocal proponents.

 

[Skunkworks]

There are almost certainly grounds for an appeal and retrial. Only the next one will be held out of state where the jurors won’t have to worry as much about them and their families being murdered.

 

[Naff8000]

Coz he was basically dead and the cop stayed on him. If someone's dying u get off them. That was reckless disregard for life.

But wait this thread was telling me a week ago there's nothing wrong with kneeling on the neck of a motionless body.

 

[Merlin5]

That woman crying. It wasn't the jury that did justice, it was god.

 

[C.R.A.Z.Y]

I'll put this here so that people who keep banging on about 'premeditated murder' can actually be informed instead of ignorant for once!

 

[thenewoc]

I wonder why so many people on this forum said he was not guilty. Was obvious he was guilty.

No it wasn't. He was restraining a suspect by leaning on the side of his neck whilst the suspect was / or had been flaying around. This was one method taught as part of their training. Am not convinced you can say he had intent to murder. Heavy handed perhaps but criminals aren't nice people. The verdict was further muddied from politicians and the president calling for a verdict prior to the jury returning their decisions.

 

[Zatoichi.uK]

I think the actual charge was "second degree unintentional homicide" or "felony murder" which basically means; George Floyd died whilst Derek Chauvin was assaulting him, I think. Which differs from "second degree murder" which just requires intent to kill.

Okay thanks that actually seems more reasonable. I expected 3rd degree/manslaughter type charges personally.

Policing in Minneapolis just got a while lot more difficult.

 

[Junglist]

I've kept most of my feelings regarding this case to myself or only with people I actually know so I wont be changing that now but I find it amazing how many people here think they know more than the actual jurors who, presumably, had all of the information and reports to hand

Unfortunately for the Floyd's it wont bring George back so the decision wont ever heal them but if it can kick start some changes in America at least his death wouldn't have been in vain for them. Silver lining and all that

 

[weringo]

Second-degree murder does require that, but the charge is explicitly Second-degree unintentional murder.

"Under Minnesota law, person causing the death of another person, Without intent to cause the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit felony offense is guilty of the crime of Murder in the Second Degree."

You can also be charged of second degree intentional murder but pointing that out is about as relevant as pointing out that you can be charged of buggery in the context of the trial, as it wasn't the charge

 

[adolf hamster]

I’m more inclined to believe that no juror was brave enough to say not guilty on the basis of reasonable doubt. It would probably feel like a death sentence. At least 11 other people would know it was you and you would live in fear of word getting out.

tbh even if they weren't worried about their personal safety, could still be considering sending one man to jail for a few years is worth saving the civil unrest?

if this hadn't been such a high-profile political case with the same decision i'd be happy enough to trust in the judgement (at least in being as accurate as any human system with human fallibility can be).