Soldato
2nd and 3rd degree murder concern causing death through disregard for human life. Kneeling on the neck of a cuffed and controlled suspect clearly having respiratory issues for 9 odd minutes would fit nicely into that definition.
Derek Chauvin murder trial (Police officer who arrested George Floyd)
- Thread starter dowie
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2nd and 3rd degree murder concern causing death through disregard for human life. Kneeling on the neck of a cuffed and controlled suspect clearly having respiratory issues for 9 odd minutes would fit nicely into that definition.
Associate
Isn't that exactly what they should be doing? Following the rules? The law? Worrying about whether or not the actions they are taking are lawful? If this makes one cop think twice before they murder a black man on the street, then at least some semblance of justice was done.
These are supposedly highly trained professionals. Everyone else considers the consequences of their actions during their day to day lives, why shouldn't the police?
That it wasn't obvious he was guilty of murder. That isn't a point predicated on intent.
Soldato
This, how are people still misinterpreting the charges? It wasn't about premeditation or intent, it was about whether a) Chauvin's actions contributed to his death (and keep in mind his actions don't have to be the main contributor or the only contributor) and b) whether his actions in "restraining" Floyd amounted to felony assault. If both of those are true then the 2nd degree murder charge is absolutely appropriate.
Ah, I see.
Soldato
Yeah maybe but you wouldn't be found guilty of murder for using police issued tool to detain a suspect instead of a gun.
The part you said that is dribble is 'significant', of course you are going to find a handful of cretins that have moronic ideas!
Soldato
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I think most would be reasonable to agree that he was guilty of manslaughter through negligence after all the evidence but to be found guilty on all 3 counts and for the decision to only take 24 hours after a 3 week trial with the whole world watching, it doesn't really seem like reasonable people were on the jury
I was surprised he was guilty of murder, however reading the definition it doesn't seem unreasonable.
The elements of the crime of Murder in the Second Degree while committing a felony are: ‘
First Element: The death of George Floyd must be proven.
Second Element: The Defendant caused the death of George Floyd.
Third Element: The Defendant, at the time of causing the death of George Floyd, was committing or attempting to commit the felony offense of Assault in the Third Degree. It is not necessary for the State to prove the Defendant had an intent to kill George Floyd, but it must prove that the Defendant committed or attempted to commit the underlying felony of Assault in the Third Degree.
There are two elements of Assault in the Third Degree:
(1) Defendant assaulted George Floyd.
“Assault” is the intentional infliction of bodily harm upon another or the attempt to inflict bodily harm upon another. The intentional infliction of bodily harm requires proof that the Defendant intentionally applied unlawful force to another person without that person’s consent and that this act resulted in bodily harm.
(2) Defendant inflicted substantial bodily harm on George Floyd. It is not necessary for the State to prove that the Defendant intended to inflict substantial bodily harm, or knew that his actions would inflict substantial bodily harm, only that the Defendant intended to commit the assault and that George Floyd sustained substantial bodily harm as a result of the assault.
Fourth Element: The Defendant's act took place on or about May 25, 2020 in Hennepin County.
If you find that each of these elements has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, the Defendant is guilty of this charge. If you find that any of these elements has not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, the Defendant is not guilty of this charge, unless you find the State has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the Defendant is liable for this crime committed by another person or persons according to the instruction below.
The elements of the crime of Murder in the Second Degree while committing a felony are: ‘
First Element: The death of George Floyd must be proven.
Second Element: The Defendant caused the death of George Floyd.
Third Element: The Defendant, at the time of causing the death of George Floyd, was committing or attempting to commit the felony offense of Assault in the Third Degree. It is not necessary for the State to prove the Defendant had an intent to kill George Floyd, but it must prove that the Defendant committed or attempted to commit the underlying felony of Assault in the Third Degree.
There are two elements of Assault in the Third Degree:
(1) Defendant assaulted George Floyd.
“Assault” is the intentional infliction of bodily harm upon another or the attempt to inflict bodily harm upon another. The intentional infliction of bodily harm requires proof that the Defendant intentionally applied unlawful force to another person without that person’s consent and that this act resulted in bodily harm.
(2) Defendant inflicted substantial bodily harm on George Floyd. It is not necessary for the State to prove that the Defendant intended to inflict substantial bodily harm, or knew that his actions would inflict substantial bodily harm, only that the Defendant intended to commit the assault and that George Floyd sustained substantial bodily harm as a result of the assault.
Fourth Element: The Defendant's act took place on or about May 25, 2020 in Hennepin County.
If you find that each of these elements has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, the Defendant is guilty of this charge. If you find that any of these elements has not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, the Defendant is not guilty of this charge, unless you find the State has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that the Defendant is liable for this crime committed by another person or persons according to the instruction below.
Soldato
Well I'm not convinced without doubt that intent of that can be shown. If he'd wanted to assault him he could have done that without an audience.
Soldato
I think the appeal will be interesting.
Soldato
We'll see won't we. If any officer thought that what DC did was right then they had no business being a cop and hopefully when they leave they can be replaced with officers who actually want to protect and serve and will be better trained and more psychologically suitable for the job. The fact remains there were lots of officers on that witness list. They never normally testify against their own, that says a lot about what they think of DC. Lets not forget he had 18 complaints against him before this.
Associate
Several expert witnesses testified to say the actions that Chauvin took against Floyd would have killed someone even if they were perfectly fit and healthy.
Humans are pretty hard to kill, any normal person will find being a police officer no more difficult than before the Floyd incident happen.
So when will we see 'justice' for Anthony Timpa? do the right have to riot and act like an angry mob or something?
3 Dallas officers cleared of deadly conduct charges after handcuffed man's death
https://abcnews.go.com/US/dallas-of...uct-charges-handcuffed-mans/story?id=61774672
Either way the whole racism angle is a lie, it is simply bad policing practices.
3 Dallas officers cleared of deadly conduct charges after handcuffed man's death
https://abcnews.go.com/US/dallas-of...uct-charges-handcuffed-mans/story?id=61774672
Either way the whole racism angle is a lie, it is simply bad policing practices.
I'll put this here so that people who keep banging on about 'premeditated murder' can actually be informed instead of ignorant for once!
Handy cheat sheet to see what the charges actually were.
Soldato
That is a ridiculous thing to say. So because he didn't take him out of sight and give him a kicking he didn't want to assault him? Did you type that and think, yeah that is a good post?
Do you have a scintilla of evidence beyond Floyd being black and Chauvin being white to cry 'racism'?
Do you know that whites die at a higher rate in police interactions in the US vs blacks when you control for those arrested for violent offences?
Do you know that certain Asian groups are stopped, arrested, incarcerated and killed at far lower rates than whites never mind blacks?
Do you know that the evidence suggests black officers may be slightly more likely to use lethal force on a black suspect vs whites?
Who apparently get to write articles for major US newspapers?
Opinion | Yes, We Mean Literally Abolish the Police - The New York Times (nytimes.com)
It was significant enough to be discussed and mentioned by commentators on news programmes, multiple times.
I didn't say it was a majority view, did I. A minority of people holding to an idea can still be significant.
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