** Diablo 4 Thread **

A further negative, for me, is the way the game scales content on the open world against your level. This reduces the sense of progression, of becoming more powerful ... because everything increases in strength with you.
It only scales the level of areas that you have already outlevelled, which is fine with me. Its not like traditional scaling where every zone is the same level as you, when you are level 15 , a level 20 zone is still a level 20 zone, its just that the level 5 zone is now a level 15 zone. I'm good with that, I'd be bored senseless going back to a level 5 zone at level 70 and just breezing through stuff. Might as well just play with godmode turned on :)
 
Sorc is really powerful if you build right, get the correct aspects etc and make all the more/added multipliers work correctly. If you just pick items off the ground then it really starts to fall off damage going past lvl20 on world 2

This brings up a kinda interesting thing though, when playing the full game and the goal is to hit lvl 50 asap, how much time will you really want to spend trying to optimize a build to clear levelling content. We've already seen barb being a total joke of a class up to 25, rogue feels the most balanced with sorc being nuts if fully optimised

Rumours from the closed beta at higher level though is sorc was really weak with barb and druid being the strongest
 
This brings up a kinda interesting thing though, when playing the full game and the goal is to hit lvl 50 asap
Trying to hit level 50 "asap" is something I'd never do. I utterly abhore the concept amongst some gamers of rushing games, of any genre. Its just not in my gaming DNA at all to play any title of any genre in that way. Totally goes against every principal of gaming enjoyment that I've ever had, though I know it floats some peoples boats.

The barbarian does seem a little weak, as do any of the pure melee builds so far but I have read that the Barbarian scales up pretty well and does go on to become quite strong. A lot will change yet though I suppose, balancing is the last thing in arpgs thats done, some might say that class balancing is never done, hell PoE has been around for 10 years and still gets patches with class balancing in, same with Diablo 3. They'll be tweaking and balancing the classes for ages to come yet so I'm fine with it.
 
I'm really missing the transparent world map that you could overlay on screen while still running around.

Barbs 25 now. Still need to finish the main quests that are available but have explored most of the map now I think. A good few shrines have been found, the old, follow the map edges first then clear the center :)
 
I'm really missing the transparent world map that you could overlay on screen while still running around.

Barbs 25 now. Still need to finish the main quests that are available but have explored most of the map now I think. A good few shrines have been found, the old, follow the map edges first then clear the center :)
Yeah very odd that the overlay map isnt a thing, a lot of streamers have raised that as one of their top things to "fix", will be interesting to see if its present next weekend as its supposed to be a different build of the game next weekend
 
It wont flop. If Diablo 4 ends up being deemed a flop then we as gamers seriously need to consider whether we are overusing the word flop and using it for hyperbole.

Diablo 3 was supposedly the worst Diablo ever, yet people stuck around with it for almost 30 seasons. From what I've played of Diablo 4 so far its better than 3, that alone means that people will still be playing it in years to come. Just as people will still be playing Grim Dawn (the best arpg around imo), PoE and LE in years to come.
It wont flop in sales, but i dont see this game having much staying power for me.
Its soo mmo-ish and every system feels kind of a “lite” version. Such a shame considering what diablo 1/2 did for the genre.
 
Really had high hopes after seeing the intial itemsation.

But i gotta say d4 is more mmo than actual arpg. Everything is just easy and a bit shallow. The skilltree may as well not exist.

So unless they start showing the endgame more and it’s different to what we can currently do, id say this is going to flop, not sales wise but cant see people sticking around. :(

It's definitely "Baby's first ARPG" from what I have seen, that doesn't mean it's a bad a game it just means it's targetting a casual ARPG audience. I don't see it "flopping" from a financial standpoint or a critical one, but I do think it will be relatively short-lived though. LE looks like a more interesting game than this .
 
It wont flop in sales, but i dont see this game having much staying power for me.
Its soo mmo-ish and every system feels kind of a “lite” version. Such a shame considering what diablo 1/2 did for the genre.
Ah now see thats something different though, I get that it might not have staying power for you specifically but that doesnt make it a flop. Thats the hyperbole part I guess. Hell even Diablo 3 was a success rather than a flop, D4 wont flop.
 
It's definitely "Baby's first ARPG" from what I have seen, that doesn't mean it's a bad a game it just means it's targetting a casual ARPG audience. I don't see it "flopping" from a financial standpoint or a critical one, but I do think it will be relatively short-lived though. LE looks like a more interesting game than this .
I wouldnt say its babys first arpg, I feel thats just belittling it for belittling sake, I do however agree with you that its targetting a casual arpg audience. Its certainly not as "spreadsheety" as PoE for example. In MMO terms, if Diablo is World of Warcraft, PoE is Eve Online, which is fine, some people prefer WoW, some people prefer Eve Online. I played Diablo 3 for years and that was more shallow than D4 seems to be so I'm sure I will get years out of D4, however I am that casual arpg player target that you mention. I've got far too many titles to play now and in the future to be dedicating 13,000 hours to 1 title.

Thats why I say that making it a PoE vs D4 vs LE vs Grim Dawn argument is fundamentally flawed because they play differently and are aimed at different audiences.
 
I know, I'll go do the world boss when it's next up now that I'm 25. I wonder when it is, ah, 6pm, 8pm Sat and 6am or 8am on sunday... oh. Next weekend in the open beta I guess it'll have to be.

I have two strongholds still do to. A chunk of blue quests and still to finish the main quest, although guessing I'm near the end of it.
 
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Trying to hit level 50 "asap" is something I'd never do. I utterly abhore the concept amongst some gamers of rushing games, of any genre. Its just not in my gaming DNA at all to play any title of any genre in that way.

Sure but that's specifically you, not the majority. The majority will want to accelerate their levelling past the first few chars when they are getting multiple chars to end level. We've seen this in every arpg released so far, levelling builds, levelling strats and so on. If you don't want that then I guess that's fine right
 
I wouldnt say its babys first arpg, I feel thats just belittling it for belittling sake, I do however agree with you that its targetting a casual arpg audience. Its certainly not as "spreadsheety" as PoE for example. In MMO terms, if Diablo is World of Warcraft, PoE is Eve Online, which is fine, some people prefer WoW, some people prefer Eve Online. I played Diablo 3 for years and that was more shallow than D4 seems to be so I'm sure I will get years out of D4, however I am that casual arpg player target that you mention. I've got far too many titles to play now and in the future to be dedicating 13,000 hours to 1 title.

Thats why I say that making it a PoE vs D4 vs LE vs Grim Dawn argument is fundamentally flawed because they play differently and are aimed at different audiences.

It kinda is and it isn't, different audiences yes, but there's obviously a crossover of people who will play every or most ARPG not just one, and I think if you've played several you can make a judgement which is better, and what game does what better, strengths and weaknesses, rather than just dismissing any comparisons because the target audience is a somewhat different.
 
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I know, I'll go do the world boss when it's next up now that I'm 25. I wonder when it is, ah, 6pm, 8pm Sat and 6am or 8am on sunday... oh. Next weekend in the open beta I guess it'll have to be.

I have two strongholds still do to. A chunk of blue quests and still to finish the main quest, although guessing I'm near the end of it.
The beta runs to 7pm on Monday I believe, so boss should be up a few more times yet
 
It kinda is and it isn't, different audiences yes, but there's obviously a crossover of people who will play every or most ARPG not just one, and I think if you've played several you can make a judgement which is better, and what game does what better, strengths and weaknesses, rather than just dismissing any comparisons because the target audience is a somewhat different.
Better for the individual assessing it of course, all subjective. However as I say, the arpgs I listed are as different as various MMOs, so to compare them directly is as flawed as comparing WoW, UO, EvE and ESO, yes they are all MMOs but they are aimed at different sorts of players and are designed differently so its hard to simply make it a black and white comparison.
 
Sure but that's specifically you, not the majority. The majority will want to accelerate their levelling past the first few chars when they are getting multiple chars to end level. We've seen this in every arpg released so far, levelling builds, levelling strats and so on. If you don't want that then I guess that's fine right
Well, I couldnt comment on what the "majority" want, least not without polling the entire playerbase, so yeah, I can only speak for myself, which is all I did in the post you quoted, explained that I dont rush/speedrun games (totally dont see the point) as its not in my gaming DNA to do so, whether the "majority" agrees with me on that I of course couldnt say nor would I ever profess to know.
 
Better for the individual assessing it of course, all subjective. However as I say, the arpgs I listed are as different as various MMOs, so to compare them directly is as flawed as comparing WoW, UO, EvE and ESO, yes they are all MMOs but they are aimed at different sorts of players and are designed differently so its hard to simply make it a black and white comparison.

Then basically what you're saying is, you can't compare games...

I would argue that only EVE from your list is aimed at different audience, and that's simply down to setting. When MMO's were launching 10-15 years ago, in an attempt to dethrone WOW, what different audience were they aiming for exactly? FFXIV's rise came directly at the expense of WOW's player-base, so again what different audience? what audience was NW aiming for?

MMO's are aimed at MMO players, ARPG's are aimed at ARPG enjoyers, just because there's nuances within the games and their player-bases does not make them an appples to oranges comparison.

Games will always be compared and quite rightly so.
 
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Well, I couldnt comment on what the "majority" want, least not without polling the entire playerbase, so yeah, I can only speak for myself, which is all I did in the post you quoted, explained that I dont rush/speedrun games (totally dont see the point) as its not in my gaming DNA to do so, whether the "majority" agrees with me on that I of course couldnt say nor would I ever profess to know.

Why wouldn't you want to rush through the story etc of a game in a beta test, that way you've seen it all and can save time not playing when it's released :D
 
Then basically what you're saying is, you can't compare games...

I would argue that only EVE from your list is aimed at different audience, and that's simply down to setting. When MMO's were launching 10-15 years ago, in an attempt to dethrone WOW, what different audience were they aiming for exactly? FFXIV's rise came directly at the expense of WOW's player-base, so again what different audience? what audience was NW aiming for?

Games will always be compared and quite rightly so.
I'm saying, like all things in life, be it book, tv show, movie, game, car, whatever, the best and most valid comparisons are like for like, not like for similar.

You dont think that WoW was aimed at a different audience to UO? That surprises me, other than them being MMOs they are very different.
 
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No, it won't. They published the times the world boss would appear - 8 am this morning was the last time for this weekend's beta test.
Ahh, ok, kind of an odd decision to have another 19 hours of beta on Monday but no world boss in those 19 hours but yeah I guess next weekend it is then
 
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