Diesels Vs Petrol *DEBATE*

[ugh]

Hello


Diesel Vs Petrol, its one of my favourite topics to discuss.


These comments i make, are my own personal view only - Please feel free to donate your view on the matter, without slagging off anyone or there car


Right well, I am a diesel hater. Most people know this
The reasons why are because, they smell awful.
Diesel on the road can be deadly and has probably been the cause of many bikers hitting diesel and coming off and dieing. Diesel engines sound like tractors from the outside but also in the inside on some cars.
Diesel is more expensive than petrol, and some petrol cars can return the same MPG, so which is cheaper?
Petrol creates lesser pollution & petrol vehicles are easier to maintain.
It costs much less to maintain a petrol vehicle as against a diesel vehicle.
Comparing engine sizes, reletevly diesels are much slower than petrols.


Cant think of any others right now, but when i do ill add them to the list

 

[Gilly]

/me readies fire extinguishers and puts fire brigade on alert

 

[R220]

modern turbo deisel engines are brilliant, more torque than petrol engines but a much higher mpg. Yes d is more expensive per litre, but will still save in the long run.

anyone seen pugs new sports car (concept), its a diesel

oh yer - i dont own a diesel, just dont dislike modern diesels. I know old d cars were slow, noisy, my m8 has a 1.5 D ax, we think its louder than a sherman tank.

 

[merlin]

Personally i dont care much for diesels, they just dont appeal to me one bit.

Q Fox....

 

[[TW]Fox]

Originally posted by ugh
The reasons why are because, they smell awful.

They do? I've certainly not noticed this. Probably becuase I dont spend time standing next to the exhuast outlet of my car. I tend to drive it when the engine is running. Don't you?

Diesel on the road can be deadly and has probably been the cause of many bikers hitting diesel and coming off and dieing.

What? So is oil from petrol engines, how is this relevent?

Diesel engines sound like tractors from the outside but also in the inside on some cars.

Diesel cars sound noisy when you start them. This is one of the acknowledged drawbacks of diesel powered cars. However, it's not as bad as the Derv-haters like to think it is. For a start, you dont generally stand around with your head next to the bonnet listening. You get in the car, you start it, you drive of. Inside the noise is not a problem in a decently sized properly soundproofed car. From about 30mph upwards you cannot even tell its a diesel, and below that the noise is far from obtrusive.

Diesel is more expensive than petrol, and some petrol cars can return the same MPG, so which is cheaper?

Diesel, blatantly. You can get cars which can return over 50mpg. However, these are Fiesta 1.1's, Yaris 1.0's, etc. Small town cars. However look at the diesels which can return over 50mph - Ford Focus, Ford Mondeo, Peugeot 405, Citroen Xantia, Vauxhall Astra and many many more. Much bigger, more comfortable cars. Diesel costs more but you use less of it. I run my 'barge' for the same fuel costs as my old 1.3.

Petrol creates lesser pollution

Whilst this may be selfish, I don't actually care. It does produce a lot less CO2, though.

& petrol vehicles ere easier to maintain.
It costs much less to maintain a petrol vehicle as against a diesel vehicle.

Where did you get this from? I've not noticed any extra expense or difficulty bar slightly more frequent oil changes.

Comparing engine sizes, reletevly diesels are much slower than petrols.

This is only the case with N/A engines, which are woefully slow. This is why most diesel engines have a turbocharger fitted. With this, they can equal and often excel the performance of a similar sized petrol car. They are often quicker when loaded or when going up hill due to the much greater amounts of tourque. Lets take a look at some examples:

For each example the same trim level has been selected:

VW Golf 2.0 S: 0-62: 11.4 seconds. Torque: 125 lb/ft
VW Golf 1.9TDI S: 0-62: 10.2 seconds. Torque: 228lb/ft

Ford Focus 1.8i GHIA: 0-62: 10.3 seconds. Torque: 117 lb/ft
Ford Focus 1.8TDCi GHIA: 0-62: 10.8 seconds. Torque: 185lb/ft

BMW 318i SE (1995cc): 0-62: 10.7 seconds. Torque: 148lb/ft
BMW 320d SE (1995cc): 0-62: 8.9 seconds. Torque: 244lb/ft

 

[Toasty]

As said the modern common rail turbo diesel engines are pretty good now and the tractor noise has been much reduced.
They have good overtaking power due to high torque output and are more frugal than petrol engines

Petrol engines are more exciting and more suited for high speed applications and the more sporty cars.
So diesel is fine for the majority of cars, just not the more fun cars.

 

[merlin]

^

 

[ugh]

Originally posted by [TW]Fox
They do? I've certainly not noticed this. Probably becuase I dont spend time standing next to the exhuast outlet of my car. I tend to drive it when the engine is running. Don't you?

Yes they do, have you ever left your heater on and then starter the car up? I smells AWFUL.

Originally posted by [TW]Fox
What? So is oil from petrol engines, how is this relevent?

Indeed, Oil is nasty on the roads... but thats irrelevent. Petrol on the roads ISNT dangerous, where as diesel is.

Originally posted by [TW]Fox
Diesel cars sound noisy when you start them. This is one of the acknowledged drawbacks of diesel powered cars. However, it's not as bad as the Derv-haters like to think it is. For a start, you dont generally stand around with your head next to the bonnet listening. You get in the car, you start it, you drive of. Inside the noise is not a problem in a decently sized properly soundproofed car. From about 30mph upwards you cannot even tell its a diesel, and below that the noise is far from obtrusive.

Well, the reason i put this in is because i generaly get woken up at 7:30am every weekday by the local diesel bregade... Its annoying opening the eyes to the sound of a tractor

Originally posted by [TW]Fox
Diesel, blatantly. You can get cars which can return over 50mpg. However, these are Fiesta 1.1's, Yaris 1.0's, etc. Small town cars. However look at the diesels which can return over 50mph - Ford Focus, Ford Mondeo, Peugeot 405, Citroen Xantia, Vauxhall Astra and many many more. Much bigger, more comfortable cars. Diesel costs more but you use less of it. I run my 'barge' for the same fuel costs as my old 1.3.

Indeed you are correct, but it really does depend on the car. Most of the cars on todays roads are small cars, which do equal the MPG of the diesel cars. I really do think diesels should be kept for Vans, Bus's trains and taxis.

Originally posted by [TW]Fox
This is only the case with N/A engines, which are woefully slow. This is why most diesel engines have a turbocharger fitted. With this, they can equal and often excel the performance of a similar sized petrol car. They are often quicker when loaded or when going up hill due to the much greater amounts of tourque. Lets take a look at some examples:

For each example the same trim level has been selected:

VW Golf 2.0 S: 0-62: 11.4 seconds. Torque: 125 lb/ft
VW Golf 1.9TDI S: 0-62: 10.2 seconds. Torque: 228lb/ft

Ford Focus 1.8i GHIA: 0-62: 10.3 seconds. Torque: 117 lb/ft
Ford Focus 1.8TDCi GHIA: 0-62: 10.8 seconds. Torque: 185lb/ft

BMW 318i SE (1995cc): 0-62: 10.7 seconds. Torque: 148lb/ft
BMW 320d SE (1995cc): 0-62: 8.9 seconds. Torque: 244lb/ft

Indeed there are some quick diesels, BUT, the examples you give are the top end ones... nothing else can come close to that when looking at stuff like the Pug 405 diesel etc

 

[beermonster]

Diesels are for towing caravans on bank holiday weekends slowing us petrol heads down

 

[[TW]Fox]

Originally posted by ugh
Yes they do, have you ever left your heater on and then starter the car up? I smells AWFUL.

I do it all the time. It doesnt smell of anything.

Indeed, Oil is nasty on the roads... but thats irrelevent. Petrol on the roads ISNT dangerous, where as diesel is.

But thats not a disadvantage of diesel cars, thats a disadvantage of a badly maintained diesel vehicle.

Well, the reason i put this in is because i generaly get woken up at 7:30am every weekday by the local diesel bregade... Its annoying opening the eyes to the sound of a tractor

Consult your GP then as you obviously have a sleeping disorder. There is no way a normal diesel engine could wake you up just by being started.

Indeed you are correct, but it really does depend on the car. Most of the cars on todays roads are small cars, which do equal the MPG of the diesel cars. I really do think diesels should be kept for Vans, Bus's trains and taxis.

Most of the cars on todays roads are small cars? What? There are loads of different sizes. If you drive a Yaris or something I dont see the point in diesel - you can get good economy with petrol. But if you drove something Focus or Mondeo sized it makes lots of sense! Dont forget diesels are taxed a lot lower as company cars. 38% increase in the use of diesel cars in 2002, and 1 in 2 cars ordered through Lex vehicle leasing are diesels.

Indeed there are some quick diesels, BUT, the examples you give are the top end ones... nothing else can come close to that when looking at stuff like the Pug 405 diesel etc

They are not top end ones at all - The stats for the Focus LX are the same as that for the GHIA, the Golfs chosen where boggo standard ones and not GTI TD's, and the 320d is a low end BMW.

If you want to move onto older stuff, fine. Note I dont have torque figures for the petrol stuff.

Peugeot 405 STDT: 0-60: 12.7 seconds. Torque: 148lb/ft.
Peugeot 405 ST 1.8: 0-60 12.0 seconds.

Citroen Xantia SX 1.9TD: 0-60 11.6 seconds. Torque 148 lb/ft
Citroen Xantia SX 1.8i: 0-60 13.3 seconds

Citroen ZX Aura TD: 0-60 10.3 seconds. Torque 148 lb/ft
Citroen ZX Furio 1.8i: 0-60 9.5 seconds

 

[[TW]Fox]

Originally posted by beermonster
Diesels are for towing caravans on bank holiday weekends slowing us petrol heads down

Most of the people I know who tow actually use petrol engined cars for some reason, even though a diesel would be more suitable.

I'm not entirely sure how off the cuff comments help the debate, though.

 

[derv]

Originally posted by ugh

Diesel on the road can be deadly and has probably been the cause of many bikers hitting diesel and coming off and dieing

Diesel is very slippery and no doubt kills bikers every year, but it's not really cars that are the problem. It's the big lorries and busses, and maybe even the tankers that leave all the spills. I'm sure cars do leave spills, but it's nothing compared to the bigger vehicles.

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

Fox>

Well argued mate, I'd back you on everything you've said here. Some good backup research to prove your point.


Ugh>

Sorry mate, but inline with Fox I dissagree with virtually everything you've said.

Just to prove the point, I recently drove Rover 75 diesel and it was excellent.
Yes it was slightly noisier on startup, but once moving you never noticed it wasn't a petrol. No you couldn't rev it to death, but instead learned to drive on a lovely wave of torque, and very relaxing it was to.
Just to finish it off, even excluding the higher reliability that most diesels have, and better fuel economy is the fact that diesels often hold their value better and depreciate less than their petrol bretheren.

Still, if you hate them, just stick to petrol cars.

 

[Dogbreath]

I drive on a huge "wave of torque" in my turbocharged petrol engine, and I can also safely take it to 7500RPM, or trundle along in a traffic jam with my foot of the throttle do a few MPH with no problems at all.

I'd say the only real advantage that a diesel offers is fuel economy. With the price of fuel at the moment, that's more than enough incentive for people who want a car purely for transport. Running out of steam at 4500-5000rpm spoils the driving experience for me tbh.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Originally posted by Dogbreath
I drive on a huge "wave of torque" in my turbocharged petrol engine, and I can also safely take it to 7500RPM, or trundle along in a traffic jam with my foot of the throttle do a few MPH with no problems at all.

I'd say the only real advantage that a diesel offers is fuel economy. With the price of fuel at the moment, that's more than enough incentive for people who want a car purely for transport. Running out of steam at 4500-5000rpm spoils the driving experience for me tbh.

So its clear your turbo petrol car offers all the performance related benefits of a diesel, and combines it with the enjoyment etc etc of a petrol. However, I disagree the only reason for the diesel is fuel economy.

What insurance group is your car in?
What was the list price of your car?
How much is your car now, compared to the same age TD?

If finance is not an issue, there is no compelling reason to buy a diesel becuase you could get a nice petrol car with a turbo like yours. However, for most, finance *is* an issue.

 

[wassap]

Diesel on the floor thats not the fault of the motor car, more to do with commercial vehicles, which ugh wants to keep as diesel.

I think if u plan to do a lot of mileage diesel is the way to go, if u just want a town knock about buy a 1.1 petrol, my 306 isnt that great in and around town.

The power is there in all `modern` diesels, the money u save in the long run, is well worth, spending the little extra on fuel, diesel servicing is now on a par with petrol cars, most modern diesels only require 12k oil changes as opposed to 6k on older diesels.

Mine at startup isnt noisey, cant hear the thing when im driving too.

Basically if i want a sports car i will buy a petrol, if i want an everyday work car buy diesel.

Oh and if diesels are rubbish, why bmw and merc putting diesels in their coupes? the new bmw 3 litre lump has the same amount of torque as the m3, and it returns 40mpg, best of both worlds me thinks

 

[scoobyrichuk]

Diesel engines are great IMO, my dad just got a new car: A 1.9 TDI (115BHP model) VW Bora, it's extremely nippy - does 0-60 in about 9.9 seconds, top speed of 135mph or so. Very quiet engine as well...

 

[Hate]

but your petrol engine returns less mpg, is more expensive to run and insure

take a look at the new 330d BMW... 0-60 in 7 seconds while returning 40+ mpg.... not bad

 

[Maz]

Diesels are for penny pinchers

 

[[TW]Fox]

Originally posted by Maz
Diesels are for penny pinchers

BMW 330d: £30,000
Suzuki Baleno 1.6 Sport: £2000

Owning people who say diesels are for penny pinchers: Priceless.