Diesels Vs Petrol DEBATE

Moeks · 17 Apr 2003 at 15:24

I would totally agree with that wohoo and I think Fox has hit the nail right on the head. Modern diesel cars are not slow, noisy or smelly. Infact I would bet that my 2.0 HDI diesel C5 is more refined/quieter on the motorway than most modern petrol equivalents being as it only does 2400rpm at 70mph in 5th ... you can't actually hear the engine atall! and I mean atall only wind and tire noise. And you prod the accelerator and ride the 186lb/ft of torque and easily overtake without need of a down change, can do it up hill with 5 people in the car as well

now from personal experience that isn’t so easy in a mk2 2.0 petrol Mondeo. 1 full 67 litre tank of fuel will take me good 600 miles aswell. It costs me less to put fuel in it than it ever did my old 1.4 Fiesta mk3 SI and that was utterly gutless despite it’s diminutive size and light weight. So a big thumbs up for modern diesel technology from me

.

ZuG · 17 Apr 2003 at 15:24

because people are going by what diesels used to be. People still have it in their minds that diesels are dirty huge engines which are really slow and stink. This is simply not true with modern engines and people are beginning to realise this! Each year the percentage of cars sold is going higher for diesels because of the improved engines, improved speeds and the main 2 facts.

Diesels are 30% more efficient on average
Diesel engines last twice aslong.

[TW]Fox · 17 Apr 2003 at 15:26

Originally posted by merlin
...a viable alternative to petrol in terms of performance?

Against similar cars in the same class, yes.

Against something like an Impreza? Hell no. Nobody would be stupid enough to suggest diesel as a suitable fuel for a high performance car.

If diesels are that good then why -

Do the majority still buy petrol

Last year, sales of Diesel powered cars increased by 38%, according to the Soceity of Motor Manufacturers and Traders. The SMMT also says that based on current level of sales, by the end of 2003 1 in 3 vehicles sold will be powered by diesel.

Almost 50% of vehicles ordered through Lex Leasing are diesel, as I said previously..

If diesels are that bad, why are they taking off more than ever before?

merlin · 17 Apr 2003 at 15:30

grr, double post.

:mad:

Was supposed to also say -

If diesels are that good then why -

1 - Do the majority of poeple still buy petrol?
2 - " prefer petrol?
3 - Do Fleet owners still buy more petrol cars than diesel?
4 - Are the best/highest spec models of cars petrol engined?

I dont have a problem with diesel cars at all, it's just that they just aint for me whilst im of the opinion performance is everything. Although certainly on the whole, diesels are getting faster and faster....

SDK^ · 17 Apr 2003 at 15:31

Originally posted by [TW]Fox
60% of all Mercedes S Class's sold are diesels.

Fox - Most of that 60% will be people on a Company Car scheme trying to save money with the lower tax on emissions. Which in my book = penny pincher

LOL also @ the clouds of smoke from a diesel car under hard acceleration

[TW]Fox · 17 Apr 2003 at 15:34

Originally posted by Sundance Kid
LOL also @ the clouds of smoke from a diesel car under hard acceleration

What?

You people really are scraping the barrel now...

Mine doesnt smoke on acceleration and it's 8 years old, so I doubt the newer ones do it.

Minxy · 17 Apr 2003 at 15:34

Interesting thread once you get rid of some of the rubbish

OT : Fox Maybe you can point me in the direction of the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders as it may be useful for a project I am doing. Cheers.

merlin · 17 Apr 2003 at 15:35

SDK - do modern diesels smoke under xceleration or is that just the old ones?

I thought the soot was pretty much a myth nowadays?

:confused:

SDK^ · 17 Apr 2003 at 15:39

Originally posted by [TW]Fox
What?

You people really are scraping the barrel now...

Mine doesnt smoke on acceleration and it's 8 years old, so I doubt the newer ones do it.

Sorry Fox but I disagree, Citroen may be the exception but I've followed Audi A3's, BMW 320 & 330d's and Mercedes diesel cars and when they accelerate hard visible smoke comes from the exhaust.

Diesel cars sound awful when you’re outside listening to them, sure inside they may be quiet but it’s all about the conception of refinement. Smoke and rattling engines does not equal refinement.

…tick, tick, tick, tick

Originally posted by merlin
SDK - do modern diesels smoke under xceleration or is that just the old ones?

It's not massive clouds but enough to notice, you guys gotta open your eyes !!!!

[TW]Fox · 17 Apr 2003 at 15:41

Originally posted by merlin
If diesels are that good then why -

1 - Do the majority of poeple still buy petrol?

Becuase of the same reason as most people in this thread. They've no real idea what modern diesels are like and still base their thoughts on them on ones they saw 15 years ago. Also, not everyone needs the economy or the torque a diesel provides.

2 - " prefer petrol?

No idea about the general public, but many people in here drive high performance cars. It's easy to see why they prefer petrol.

3 - Do Fleet owners still buy more petrol cars than diesel?

The figures I can find for one of the UK's largest leasing companies who provide company cars, Lex, state that roughly half (I think its something like 49%) of cars they lease are diesel.

4 - Are the best/highest spec models of cars petrol engined?

Source for this?

Lets take Ford. Their highest spec is Ghia. Aha, here is a GHIA TDCi

BMW? Their highest spec is Sport I think (Ignoring the M-Sport models). Oh look, there's the 530d Sport.

Audi? Quattro Sport is probably their highest trim level. Whats this? Ah yes, an A6 2.5TDi Quattro Sport.

Mercedes? Well, it's either Avantgarde or AMG. What have we here? Ah yes, a C30 CDI AMG, and a C270 CDI Elegance/Avantgarde. Fancy something bigger? Here we go - E320CDi Avantgarde.

[TW]Fox · 17 Apr 2003 at 15:43

Originally posted by Sundance Kid
Sorry Fox but I disagree, Citroen may be the exception but I've followed Audi A3's, BMW 320 & 330d's and Mercedes diesel cars and when they accelerate hard visible smoke comes from the exhaust.

I'm still going to disagree. I've not seen this.

Diesel cars sound awful when you’re outside listening to them, sure inside they may be quiet

Quiet inside. There we go. I'm inside my car, not outside. Mr Mercedes is inside his car sitting in comfort with his climate control on. Does he care that the bloke next to him notices his engine is slightly noisier?

ZuG · 17 Apr 2003 at 15:44

so after all the arguments too and against diesels, your now resting your whole case for petrols on how the diesel car sounds when stood next to the bonnet? Well ok, you can have that so the reason petrol cars are better than diesels is because
when stood next to them they dont sound as good as petrols.

Have you got any other points which are not either complete myths or only associated with very old diesel cars ( which are still around because they last longer than petrol cars

)

SDK^ · 17 Apr 2003 at 15:44

Originally posted by [TW]Fox
The figures I can find for one of the UK's largest leasing companies who provide company cars, Lex, state that roughly half (I think its something like 49%) of cars they lease are diesel.

It's cheaper for Company car users to have a diesel car in the UK, why do you think BMW, Mercedes and Lexus developed Exec Diesels !!!

My Manager has a BMW 320d, he wouldn't be able to afford the equivalent 320 Petrol because of the tax charges.

[TW]Fox · 17 Apr 2003 at 15:46

Originally posted by Sundance Kid
It's cheaper for Company car users to have a diesel car in the UK, why do you think BMW, Mercedes and Lexus developed Exec Diesels !!!

Yes, thats correct. I was adressing the 'most company cars are petrol' point, which I said is incorrect, and you have just kindly provided the reason for it being incorrect

SDK^ · 17 Apr 2003 at 15:46

Originally posted by [TW]Fox
Quiet inside. There we go. I'm inside my car, not outside. Mr Mercedes is inside his car sitting in comfort with his climate control on. Does he care that the bloke next to him notices his engine is slightly noisier?

He does care - Any person concerned about the badge on their car is concerned about what people think when they roll up

....tick, tick, tick, tick, tick

ZuG · 17 Apr 2003 at 15:47

Originally posted by Sundance Kid
why do you think BMW, Mercedes and Lexus developed Exec Diesels !!!

because diesels are better

[TW]Fox · 17 Apr 2003 at 15:47

Originally posted by Sundance Kid
He does care - Any person concerned about the badge on their car is concerned about what people think when they roll up

....tick, tick, tick, tick, tick

As I've said, 60% of Mercedes S Class's sold here are 320CDi's. The exterior noise clearly cannot be that much of a problem.

SDK^ · 17 Apr 2003 at 15:49

Originally posted by ZuG
because diesels are better

Because they appeal to execs as they are cheaper

Forget money and costs for a moment
Given the choice of a Diesel Mercedes S Class or Petrol equivalent which would you choose !!!

The ‘bag of nails’ sounding diesel or the grunty sounding petrol

Visker · 17 Apr 2003 at 15:51

Did Someone Say Racing Diesels?

I Have Nothing Against Diesels, But If I Had The Choice... It Would Be Petrol.

Flibster · 17 Apr 2003 at 15:51

I know for a fact that Lotus developed a 1.8l diesel engine and put it in an Elise. Elise went faster than the petrol version. Was probably more economic too.

A few years ago there was also a diesel rally skoda rally car. Fantastic thing to drive. You could pull away safely in 4th if you really wanted to.

Did quite well iirc.

BTW. I currently drive a Mk5 Escort TDi Ghia.

Simon/~Flibster

Diesels Vs Petrol *DEBATE*

Diesels Vs Petrol DEBATE