Soldato
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nvmd
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DirectX 12
- Thread starter shankly1985
- Start date
My take on this is if NVidia do not jump on the mantle bandwagon if and when then mantle will eventually die a slow agonising death, DX12 has only just been announced and already the mantle boys have been rushing to intensive care trying to resuscitate mantle.
To all AMD users... be afraid, be very afraid.
Yeah but, directx isn't locked to nvidia so if mantle dies or dx12 is better then who is it exactly is losing out? It's not like anyone using an AMD card is getting the ****ty end of the stick, everyones a winner if DX12 is good.
Hell, i havn't even tried mantle yet and i probably won't until a game is released that supports it correctly or until mantle is finished.
Stop posting garbage like a child about mantle trying to bait everyone it's pathetic.
Soldato
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- 28 Oct 2011
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- 8,654
How can anyone be scared of DX12?
DX12 wont be out until the next revision of windows, and then it will only be available on that version.
AMD have a fair bit of time to bump support for mantle between now and when games will ship with DX12. A big contender to mantle at this point is OpenGL but again no one seems actively pushing for using lower level hw access using that in real world games.
In my view it boils down to the following :-
1) DX12 is still a long way off getting a game onto a PC
2) Mantle has one game already and more to come in the next 12 months
3) AMD users cant loose with mantle, if it fails it was free. (And its pushed MS to fix DirectX)
AMD have a fair bit of time to bump support for mantle between now and when games will ship with DX12. A big contender to mantle at this point is OpenGL but again no one seems actively pushing for using lower level hw access using that in real world games.
In my view it boils down to the following :-
1) DX12 is still a long way off getting a game onto a PC
2) Mantle has one game already and more to come in the next 12 months
3) AMD users cant loose with mantle, if it fails it was free. (And its pushed MS to fix DirectX)
Permabanned
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- 15 Sep 2010
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- 2,691
Having a bit of fun dude, sense of humour, stop being so touchy, you've got nothing to worry about. If it gets to much for you, you could always trade your card for an Nvidia
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Permabanned
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Permabanned
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Oh dear, AMD owners appear to be getting a little upset, arr didums.
They could release it for 8 if they wanted, it would likely help sales of 8 and the majority will still upgrade to 9 because hardly anybody likes 8.
Thats not how MS roll
By the time DX12 is ready Windows 9 will be shipping (probably) if that is the case MS will take that opportunity to force anyone wanting DX12 to buy a new licence key .....
Associate
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- 10 Nov 2009
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- Southampton
Let's say DX12 is Windows 9 exclusive. It would be with a whole new WDDM, surely? If that happens, would there not be potential there for the DX12 package to contain updated libraries of all previous versions of DX, bringing retroactively low-level Mantle-style GPU access and eliminating CPU bottlenecks for thousands of games? (hi Crysis)
I guess that could be done, however the risk of breaking compatibility with games is very very high, they could end up breaking a tonne of widely used (no longer updated) games.
Soldato
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- 14 Dec 2013
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I really hope MS get the next version of Windows right. I am using 8.1 now but I don't really like it (I certainly do not hate it but on a desk top PC I find it jarring), but going back to 7 feels dated so I am kinda in an OS limbo right now and Steam OS could go either way.
Should have bought a MacBook! But I am very interest in what Windows 9 + DX12 will offer.
Should have bought a MacBook!
But I am very interest in what Windows 9 + DX12 will offer.Having a bit of fun dude, sense of humour, stop being so touchy, you've got nothing to worry about. If it gets to much for you, you could always trade your card for an Nvidia
I will be trading it in for whatever is within my budget and performs well when i need to upgrade, be it NVIDIA or AMD. You know theres some people who are not die hard fanboy morons.
Oh dear, AMD owners appear to be getting a little upset, arr didums.
I don't see why any AMD owner would be upset about DX12, most of the pre mantle threads and current threads have both AMD owners and NVIDIA owners wanting Mantle(AMD) to give M$ a kick up the arse to get them to improve DX. DX12 'might' be great when it finally gets implemented.
Still though nice attempt to troll and hope it gets you on your way to a nice holiday from the forums
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No money in it as the R&D for something like that would cost more than they'd ever make, then you'd have the headache of supporting it, getting companies to specifically code for it etc.
Permabanned
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I will be trading it in for whatever is within my budget and performs well when i need to upgrade, be it NVIDIA or AMD. You know theres some people who are not die hard fanboy morons.
I don't see why any AMD owner would be upset about DX12, most of the pre mantle threads and current threads have both AMD owners and NVIDIA owners wanting Mantle(AMD) to give M$ a kick up the arse to get them to improve DX. DX12 'might' be great when it finally gets implemented.
Still though nice attempt to troll and hope it gets you on your way to a nice holiday from the forums
And why do you think, hope it will get me a holiday from the forums?
can I take it you're calling me a fanboy moron? be careful there dude or you may be the one on the way to a holiday from the forum.
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No it doesn't work like that. A DX10 games will run on the DX10 libraries & code. DX11 also on their own, so will DX12 games.
However Mantle can be retrofitted to any engine it seems (Thief is using unreal for example).
DX12.
For me the whole thing leaves me cold. It will require new GPU to boot, and games to support it (and probably Windows 9). Since I plan to play exclusively TESO for the next X years there isn't going to be much of a change. And my i7 can chew anything.
On the other hand, I want Mantle to succeed. It is time that we should have the option to remove that cancer named Windows from our systems, and have a free choice of OS.
It is shame that Nvidia is playing politics, and doesn't add Mantle support to their GPUs. It will speed up the removal of the cancer.
After all we stand up against monopolies on our daily life, but we are all complicit about MS Windows, because we cannot play all the games on another OS.
(the above from someone that has 780, so do not start talking about fan boys).
Caporegime
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hapCuhAs1nA
not quite sure why I started watching this, was looking for other things, the first 7-8 minutes are exceptional in so much as. He's basically saying after working on low level with consoles, pc's are becoming a joke, it's almost all API issues and he hoped someone comes along and make memory and access available to the dev and get around all the bottlenecks. He mentions specifically that Nvidia had ways to bypass much of the overhead in openGL but this still wasn't good enough and exposing the memory and giving real access was dedicated. This is pre-kaveri, pre-console and pre-mantle. But effective Mantle and HSA is everything he was crying out for 2-3 years ago.
He thought Intel might be the ones to give HSA like integration and maybe Mantle like access first, and he didn't think the consoles would all be dominated by one type of chip, so he called both wrong. But he also thought integration of gpu/cpu was key for the future and would certainly dominate.
Very interesting take on it though... also for the record because I can think of at least 3 guys who will say "yeah but before you were saying he didn't know what he was doing and was outdated"... no, I didn't, others did. I said all his most recent games are crap and I'm not interested in his tech demo games, doesn't mean he doesn't know tech and isn't interesting.
I did find it particularly funny because Carmack amongst MANY other dev's was bemoaning DX and openGL in this interview 3 years ago, and most dev's have been complaining about crappy API's on PC for much longer than that. Then when AMD makes a new API that addresses every one of his problems, latency, drivers, overhead, access to memory, control to the dev, he goes on an Nvidia talk panel and bemoans it saying he didn't want a new API. Because he'd publicly said the opposite before hand. Also people banging on about AMD paying Dice 10mil to use Mantle which is absurd, AMD and Nvidia frequently "pay" for game exclusives, the majority of the cost being the huge number of games they'll hand out, partially for the exclusive. Without Mantle, AMD would have paid Dice for BF4(without knowing what a joke it was set to be), and Nvidia has paid was it 6-7mil for some Ubisoft games with the same deal.
So they tried to make a joke and some Nvidia users here want AMD to have had to pay Dice to use Mantle(yet not the other dev's... odd that), and Johan only did it because he was paid according to the same people and Carmack and Sweeny suggested the same, when for years they've all been saying DX isn't working. So Johan just doing what they all wanted, but for show at an Nvidia panel they all pretend they are extremely happy with DX and don't want a new API.
Worth watching the rest for people who are interested. Even back then he's talking up Oculus Rift(at the time it wasn't available or being talked about, just he thought the future was head mounted VR stylie gaming), and he's moved on from his company to join with Oculus Rift recently to pursue what he thinks is the next big thing in gaming.
not quite sure why I started watching this, was looking for other things, the first 7-8 minutes are exceptional in so much as. He's basically saying after working on low level with consoles, pc's are becoming a joke, it's almost all API issues and he hoped someone comes along and make memory and access available to the dev and get around all the bottlenecks. He mentions specifically that Nvidia had ways to bypass much of the overhead in openGL but this still wasn't good enough and exposing the memory and giving real access was dedicated. This is pre-kaveri, pre-console and pre-mantle. But effective Mantle and HSA is everything he was crying out for 2-3 years ago.
He thought Intel might be the ones to give HSA like integration and maybe Mantle like access first, and he didn't think the consoles would all be dominated by one type of chip, so he called both wrong. But he also thought integration of gpu/cpu was key for the future and would certainly dominate.
Very interesting take on it though... also for the record because I can think of at least 3 guys who will say "yeah but before you were saying he didn't know what he was doing and was outdated"... no, I didn't, others did. I said all his most recent games are crap and I'm not interested in his tech demo games, doesn't mean he doesn't know tech and isn't interesting.
I did find it particularly funny because Carmack amongst MANY other dev's was bemoaning DX and openGL in this interview 3 years ago, and most dev's have been complaining about crappy API's on PC for much longer than that. Then when AMD makes a new API that addresses every one of his problems, latency, drivers, overhead, access to memory, control to the dev, he goes on an Nvidia talk panel and bemoans it saying he didn't want a new API. Because he'd publicly said the opposite before hand. Also people banging on about AMD paying Dice 10mil to use Mantle which is absurd, AMD and Nvidia frequently "pay" for game exclusives, the majority of the cost being the huge number of games they'll hand out, partially for the exclusive. Without Mantle, AMD would have paid Dice for BF4(without knowing what a joke it was set to be), and Nvidia has paid was it 6-7mil for some Ubisoft games with the same deal.
So they tried to make a joke and some Nvidia users here want AMD to have had to pay Dice to use Mantle(yet not the other dev's... odd that), and Johan only did it because he was paid according to the same people and Carmack and Sweeny suggested the same, when for years they've all been saying DX isn't working. So Johan just doing what they all wanted, but for show at an Nvidia panel they all pretend they are extremely happy with DX and don't want a new API.
Worth watching the rest for people who are interested. Even back then he's talking up Oculus Rift(at the time it wasn't available or being talked about, just he thought the future was head mounted VR stylie gaming), and he's moved on from his company to join with Oculus Rift recently to pursue what he thinks is the next big thing in gaming.
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