DirectX and OpenGL will start offering low-level access in order to reduce draw overhead

Silent_Scone · 26 Feb 2014 at 15:06

Azic said:
Does PhysX and anything else NVIDIA related sit ok with you though? Mantle can be turned on or off just AMD owners HAVE to do with PhysX.
NVIDIA could easily allow it to run on CPU's like they used to but that stopped now! I'm not very comfortable with that myself. NVIDIA go out of their way to stop AMD using PhysX, AMD have made mantle open.

PhysX may need CUDA cores to run the best, as Mantle may need GCN to run best but at least Mantle makes it an option...PhysX is exclusive.

Huh? lol. You can turn PhysX off? PhysX shouldn't be closed off, but that's business for you. it's not a valid argument deflecting. Doesn't change anything regarding Mantles position

Azic · 26 Feb 2014 at 15:15

MjFrosty said:
Huh? lol. You can turn PhysX off? PhysX shouldn't be closed off, but that's business for you. it's not a valid argument deflecting. Doesn't change anything regarding Mantles position

So as per the original thread I quoted.. when the guy says "an API should not be controlled by a single GPU manufacture"..Is that not Just business for ya?

Where did I deflect...I applied the logic of his statement of "API Control" to a real life example, which happens to be a FACT! Any Game that uses PhysX ultimately gives AMD owners a lesser experience by default regardless of Hardware specs.

BF4 Mantle gives a choice of either Mantle or DX11. If NVIDIA chose to support Mantle both NVIDIA and AMD Owners would have the same experience hardware aside.

LtMatt · 26 Feb 2014 at 15:15

Gregster said:
Do you think that is good frames for CF 290's?

Sorry last pic was too big.

Since when did 110 FPS on the highest settings at 1440P, with my gpu's at stock become anything but good fps? You do realise these cards cost £600 in total, right? :eek:

FPS was fluctuating btw, its not as if 110 was the highest. Just what was captured at the time on our busy server. If i had a 6 core 12 threaded cpu like you, ive no doubt the fps would be higher on multiplayer.

As i say trying running your cpu with 4 cores and 8 threads if you're really interested in comparing like for like.

Rusty0611 · 26 Feb 2014 at 15:19

Azic said:
Does PhysX and anything else NVIDIA related sit ok with you though? Mantle can be turned on or off just AMD owners HAVE to do with PhysX.
NVIDIA could easily allow it to run on CPU's like they used to but that stopped now! I'm not very comfortable with that myself. NVIDIA go out of their way to stop AMD using PhysX, AMD have made mantle open.

PhysX may need CUDA cores to run the best, as Mantle may need GCN to run best but at least Mantle makes it an option...PhysX is exclusive.

I know Mantle can be turned on or off - that's not the point I was making though

. If a new API was to become an industry standard and really take off I wouldn't want that to be the responsibility of one GPU manufacturer alone.

I don't really mind nor care about proprietary tech...neither here nor there because they're tacked on bits as opposed to the 'thing' itself. I don't think any of the stuff available at the moment would make me want to go back to NVIDIA though if I did get an AMD card. It's one of those things that is nice if you can and if you can't then it's not going to really bother you that much. Same will probably be said of Mantle in a couple of years time - nice for AMD users to have but I'm sure nVidia owners will be equally as happy. Because there is just zero chance of nVidia adopting it.

Silent_Scone · 26 Feb 2014 at 15:19

Azic said:
So as per the original thread I quoted.. when the guy says "an API should not be controlled by a single GPU manufacture"..Is that not Just business for ya?

Where did I deflect...I applied the logic of his statement of "API Control" to a real life example, which happens to be a FACT! Any Game that uses PhysX ultimately gives AMD owners a lesser experience by default regardless of Hardware specs.

BF4 Mantle gives a choice of either Mantle or DX11. If NVIDIA chose to support Mantle both NVIDIA and AMD Owners would have the same experience hardware aside.

You deflected by talking about Nvidia's closed libraries which isn't the point, it shows that as usual it's being seen as a dig at AMD, when in fact it's the views of end users who want a unifiable API that benefits all PC architecture. It's got nothing to do with PhysX. PhysX is a bad egg, and although I do like what it has to offer in some games, as a technology it is crippled from expanding because of how sacred NV hold it. So in a way yes you're right to compare the two, but PhysX isn' going anywhere fast so what does that matter. Especially to an AMD user lol.

You just can't say a bad word about AMD on here, when in actual fact they get a lot of things wrong. It's not the aim to point blame, but Mantle still has a very big elephant in the room which is that I think we're going to be waiting a long while for it to be anywhere near a true open standard.

shankly1985 · 26 Feb 2014 at 15:28

Here mine Full Ultra 1080p

Greg you's seems bit low?

mine 1080p though
Tuck couple couldn't find the correct spot you guys done the screenshot.

Mantle

Azic · 26 Feb 2014 at 15:31

MjFrosty said:
You deflected by talking about Nvidia's closed libraries which isn't the point, it shows that as usual it's being seen as a dig at AMD, when in fact it's the views of end users who want a unifiable API that benefits all PC architecture. It's got nothing to do with PhysX. PhysX is a bad egg, and although I do like what it has to offer in some games, as a technology it is crippled from expanding because of how sacred NV hold it. So in a way yes you're right to compare the two, but PhysX isn' going anywhere fast so what does that matter. Especially to an AMD user lol.

You just can't say a bad word about AMD on here, when in actual fact they get a lot of things wrong. It's not the aim to point blame, but Mantle still has a very big elephant in the room which is that I think we're going to be waiting a long while for it to be anywhere near a true open standard.

Im not defending AMD, I flip between the 2..
Maybe the wording of the original API got me confused "Closed API" VS "Vendor Specific API"

Having Said that I do Agree PhysX is a bad egg due to the way NVIDIA use it. But that is sadly business for you.

LtMatt · 26 Feb 2014 at 15:31

No one will find the exact area's i used apart from Siege. (credit to Humbug/Shanks/Rroff for that one)

I picked very specific areas to put maximum strain on the cpu/gpu. Comes from years of experience playing BF3 and soon to be BF4. I know which parts of the map, more specifically hot spots, that put a lot of strain on the cpu etc. You can tell by having overlays (hwinfo/ab osd etc) showing cpu usage, gpu usage running etc when you hit these areas.

As always though there is no exact science to this. FPS will vary (according to Johan) based on server and cpu load, so take all results with a grain of salt. Especially in Greg's case.

Rusty0611 · 26 Feb 2014 at 15:34

All that experience and you're still rubbish!?

I've all but given up on it. I have no-one to play with and being an infantry boy on your own is very lonely stuff. The guy I played BF3 with was never really massively interested by BF4 - we played it for a bit but I dunno it didn't have the same charm as BF3.

I wasn't that interested in it either in truth after giving it a good go but I was willing to give it time.

Silent_Scone · 26 Feb 2014 at 15:35

Azic said:
Im not defending AMD, I flip between the 2..
Maybe the wording of the original API got me confused "Closed API" VS "Vendor Specific API"

Having Said that I do Agree PhysX is a bad egg due to the way NVIDIA use it. But that is sadly business for you.

Difference is PhysX requires very little to implement. We're talking about an entirely new programming interface with Mantle. One which apparently doesn't require much ground work, granted...but they're hardly comparable at this level. As much as I'd like to try Mantle (if I get my 290 back any time soon), I'm more saying what I am because it needs to open it's doors soon to survive. Whilst PhysX will much likely stay on the slow burner for many years, as uninspiring as it is for the most part.

Besides I could fire it up at the same point as the above tests and hit over 180fps so I'm gravy ta.

LtMatt · 26 Feb 2014 at 15:38

Rusty0611 said:
All that experience and you're still rubbish!?

I've all but given up on it. I have no-one to play with and being an infantry boy on your own is very lonely stuff. The guy I played BF3 with was never really massively interested by BF4 - we played it for a bit but I dunno it didn't have the same charm as BF3.

I wasn't that interested in it either in truth after giving it a good go but I was willing to give it time.

Hey watch it Rusters. We're pretty similar in stats these days, only im more of an all rounder.

I'm going to learn to fly choppers and jets eventually. (well try to learn at least

) Flying jets always made me feel sick when i tried previously.

Yeah you need a group to play with to get the most from it. Lone wolfing gets old after a while. That said sometimes i'd rather lone wolf it and not have to listen to people moaning about the game on ts.

humbug · 26 Feb 2014 at 15:43

Gregster said:
Do you think that is good frames for CF 290's?

Sorry last pic was too big.

110 FPS? it depends on a lot of things, GFX setting, CPU bottleneck.... 110 FPS @ 1440P on Ultra certainly doesn't seem bad, not at all.

~Mike~ · 26 Feb 2014 at 15:57

LtMatt said:
That said sometimes i'd rather lone wolf it and not have to listen to people moaning about the game on ts.

Star?

LtMatt · 26 Feb 2014 at 16:12

Mike306 said:
Star?

Rusty0611 · 26 Feb 2014 at 16:13

LtMatt said:
Hey watch it Rusters. We're pretty similar in stats these days, only im more of an all rounder.

I ain't played in a couple of months or more.

I miss having a shooter to play a lot but I don't know anybody else to play with who's (this will sound big headed):

a) as good as me and;
b) has a similar play style

... so I've given up.

Having just two people all over objectives being aggressive with very good aim and tracking and also general skill / movement / awareness can make a big difference even on 32v32. Most people who play Battlefield can't aim very well but the game isn't geared towards aim vs aim it's more about positioning on who can get the drop as the levels are so open. It's a different type of game compared to what I've played historically but there's still a lot of moments where good aim and tracking will get you kills you shouldn't get or get you out of situations where you should be dead.

Anyway sorry for off topic

.

flopper · 26 Feb 2014 at 16:22

to little to late.

I love Mantle.

Suarez7 · 26 Feb 2014 at 16:47

flopper said:
to little to late.

I love Mantle.

*too

Also you're wrong it's never too late when you have the power MS wields. DirectX is already in place for nearly every PC game on the market, nobody was challenging MS on DirectX, all they'll do now is put a few more heads and some cash towards it and proprietary API's wont stand a chance in taking over. Nvidia won't adopt mantle, far too stubborn so they'll just work more closely with MS to make DirectX even better on their cards.

As has been said AMD deserve credit for trying something new and hopefully Mantle can still work really well on current and future titles.

Gregster · 26 Feb 2014 at 16:55

For nearly 20 years, DirectX has been the platform used by game developers to create the fastest, most visually impressive games on the planet.

However, you asked us to do more. You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console.”

Interesting quotes there from the original article and hopefully they are close to full swing. Not sure if this would be an exclusive DX12 for W8 or even further ahead and W9 but it is the right thing to do and I trust in D3D to do the right thing.

TheRealDeal · 26 Feb 2014 at 16:56

Gregster said:
Interesting quotes there from the original article and hopefully they are close to full swing. Not sure if this would be an exclusive DX12 for W8 or even further ahead and W9 but it is the right thing to do and I trust in D3D to do the right thing.

Yep we asked them for nearly 20 years and got nothing for a good while now. We are still asking so hopefully they deliver.

Boomstick777 · 26 Feb 2014 at 16:58

flopper said:
to little to late.

I love Mantle.

Not sure if serious?

Mantle has done it's job as far as motivating Microsoft, but let's not get to excited about Mantle itself, to little to late? A few extra fps and washed out graphics does not a DirectX replacement make, that's all we have seen so far, as far as I am aware Thief didn't even ship with Mantle support?

I'm thankful for AMD for motivating MS to make some changes to DirectX, but would prefer a low level DirectX API that's supported across the whole PC gaming platform over a GCN specific Mantle any-day.

One API that's supported by multiple vendors means a more unified platform. Hopefully Microsoft get around to releasing it sooner rather than later..