DirectX and OpenGL will start offering low-level access in order to reduce draw overhead

[gpuerrilla]

Does Theif have True Audio already or is that due in the update? Would like to hear what it's like as the vanilla audio in that game for me is terrible

Don't think so frosty, I am waiting to try it out too so waiting for proper support/patch and the game to be on offer.

 

[Martini1991]

At least Martini agrees with you

Th0nt doesn't see it that way.

Either way, what'd you end up doing on the CPU situation? I was kinda hoping you pipped up the money for that MM bundle at the time.

Noticed you using your thuban a lot.

But your pricing is a fair whack skewed, the i7 isn't required, boards are 80 quid and amd needs boards too , so an i7 system ends up ~120 more and an i5 one about ~60, which sounds completely different to comparing 400 quid to 150 quid.

 

[humbug]

Th0nt doesn't see it that way.

Either way, what'd you end up doing on the CPU situation? I was kinda hoping you pipped up the money for that MM bundle at the time.

Noticed you using your thuban a lot.

No complaints over the Bloomfield, its a great CPU and would recommend it to anyone on a budget looking for a good used CPU. But I'm quite happy with the Thuban. its more to my Taste. i kinda missed it and so got myself another one, £70, good price. its not quite as golden as my last one but it is a good one. i made sure its a 2010 batch, they seem to be the best ones.

 

[Martini1991]

You're a crazy guy

I loved my Thuban, but I couldn't live with one now.

 

[humbug]

You're a crazy guy

Well, yeah.... I'm an active member around here

 

[shankly1985]

Just to be clear here, no argument from me that Intel CPU certainly do perform better in games.

Never the less in BF4 i'm getting CPU bound Min: 55+ FPS in DX and Min: 100+ in Mantle on a 4 year old AMD 6 Core CPU.

Yes i could spend £400 on an i7 + Motherboard and get even better results, but is it £400 well spent?

If i want to run a 290X or two and a 120Hz screen then yes, will anyone with a 280X see any benefits? is it worth £400 on a CPU setup?

A sense of perspective, AMD's CPU are sub £150, they have excellent performance at that money. i think a few here would be surprised just how many CPU's AMD actually sell, they are a $6bn revenue company, far from that comes from GPU's and Consoles.

A lot of people 'very few of which reside in places like this' don't care about brands, or even understand them, they only have two questions, "will it do the job and how much will it cost me" with that in mind a lot of people already retch at the sight of Intel's price tags.

It wasn't just gaming that made him switch to amd it was also the recording and video editing also.
I have no doubt that Amd CPUs are worth every penny I was just pointing out that they is a difference and still is even wh n Mantle is used.

 

[triss]

Slightly off topic do u find overall your Thuban preforms better than your bloomfield at a similar clock Humbug?

 

[tommybhoy]

If AMD and MS are working close on DX, AMD HSA/GCn could be in for improved integration with DX12.

AMD/MS must be sharing data between XB1/PC between low level api's, how comparable is MS to Mantle?

Mantle API is a direct copy of Xbox One’s Graphics API allowing developers to directly port their games from Xbox One to PC. Since Mantle can use Direct3D high level shader language, Xbox One’s shader will be already coded in the first place so there is not much work involved in porting them to PC.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7371/understanding-amds-mantle-a-lowlevel-graphics-api-for-gcn

3-5 years-far improved AMD apu's as gaming SFF around the home

<10 years-blindingly fast AMD Cpu/Gpu with the fastest setup for gaming where Mantle just kicks ass on GE titles!

Just to be clear here, no argument from me that Intel CPU certainly do perform better in games.

Never the less in BF4 i'm getting CPU bound Min: 55+ FPS in DX and Min: 100+ in Mantle on a 4 year old AMD 6 Core CPU.

Yes i could spend £400 on an i7 + Motherboard and get even better results, but is it £400 well spent?

If i want to run a 290X or two and a 120Hz screen then yes, will anyone with a 280X see any benefits? is it worth £400 on a CPU setup?

A sense of perspective, AMD's CPU are sub £150, they have excellent performance at that money. i think a few here would be surprised just how many CPU's AMD actually sell, they are a $6bn revenue company, far from that comes from GPU's and Consoles.

A lot of people 'very few of which reside in places like this' don't care about brands, or even understand them, they only have two questions, "will it do the job and how much will it cost me" with that in mind a lot of people already retch at the sight of Intel's price tags.

Great post.

 

[gpuerrilla]

Yeah it was a nail on head post. When researching what to update from my C2D it was a moment that made sense. Unfortunately I also was made redundant at my previous job so money was very tight. Seeing them squeezing extra performance as the months tick by has meant it was hopefully a good call.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

So again mods,why is this thread still up?? Why are people being redirected to this thread:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18586638

My one had a few hundred replies and a few thousand views already.

RTM cat or i doubt anything will happen. You can be sure someone RTM'd that other thread which got locked this morning.

Done it and nothing has happened.

It seems the mods like the OP a lot,especially considering how the title is worded.

Yet on several occasions they have had no problems merging other people's later threads(including mine) into others.

Wow,just wow.

 

[gpuerrilla]

Would be interesting if anyone watches the 'mods'.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Would be interesting if anyone watches the 'mods'.

The have done it for threads mere hours apart.

My one was 9 days before,with 175 posts.

 

[Silent_Scone]

Tommy that Anandtech article is ancient.

 

[Rusty0611]

Done it and nothing has happened.

It seems the mods like the OP a lot,especially considering how the title is worded.

Yet on several occasions they have had no problems merging other people's later threads(including mine) into others.

Wow,just wow.

Why are you so bothered? Get over yourself - it's just a thread for crying out loud.

 

[LtMatt]

Why are you so bothered? Get over yourself - it's just a thread for crying out loud.

That's how i feel when someone moans about a Mantle thread.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The Game Developers Conference is coming up and both DirectX and OpenGL have queued up some very very interesting reveals. These reveals, as you might have guessed are both dedicated at showing their respective solution to CPU Rendering Overhead and Low Level Access (Microsoft Only). If their claims have any weight what so ever, it wold effectively make Mantle Dead on Arrival.

Huge news PC gamers. While Nvidia has not commented yet on supporting Mantle, it appears that both DirectX and OpenGL will be catching up with AMD’s API. According to some slideshows from this year’s GDC, both DirectX and OpenGL will start offering low-level access in order to reduce draw overhead. This obviously translates to performance gains on older CPUs, something that will definitely excite PC gamers.

“In this session we will discuss future improvements in Direct3D that will allow developers an unprecedented level of hardware control and reduced CPU rendering overhead across a broad ecosystem of hardware.”

“For nearly 20 years, DirectX has been the platform used by game developers to create the fastest, most visually impressive games on the planet.

However, you asked us to do more. You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console.”

“Driver overhead has been a frustrating reality for game developers for the entire life of the PC game industry. On desktop systems, driver overhead can decrease frame rate, while on mobile devices driver overhead is more insidious–robbing both battery life and frame rate. In this unprecedented sponsored session, Graham Sellers (AMD), Tim Foley (Intel), Cass Everitt (NVIDIA) and John McDonald (NVIDIA) will present high-level concepts available in today’s OpenGL implementations that radically reduce driver overhead–by up to 10x or more. The techniques presented will apply to all major vendors and are suitable for use across multiple platforms. Additionally, they will demonstrate practical demos of the techniques in action in an extensible, open source comparison framework.”

The article in the OP was from two weeks ago and outside the sensationalism wccftech is know for at times,is based on the same information.

It on purpose ignores the bit about AMD contributing to GDC too.

Both the threads are about GDC.

Can the threads be merged,mods?? Why does this warrant another thread,when its using the same event??

Mine was started on the 26th of February. This was started on the 7th of March.

Why are you so bothered? Get over yourself - it's just a thread for crying out loud.

Because a OP with a troll title,is allowed to exist when the one I made actually bothered to look at all sides.

It on purpose ignores the fact that AMD is part of the session.

Moreover,the mods always seem to merge threads,if they are on similar themes.

My one was 9 days earlier. No one can spin that however much they want to,and you need to get over it.

 

[Rusty0611]

That's how i feel when someone moans about a Mantle thread.

Depends - multiple mantle threads can get a bit tedious when they all descend into the same thing without fail.

Because a OP with a troll title,is allowed to exist when the one I made actually bothered to look at all sides.

It on purpose ignores the fact that AMD is part of the session.

Moreover,the mods always seem to merge threads,if they are on similar themes.

My one was 9 days earlier. No one can spin that however much they want to,and you need to get over it.

OP has the same title as the original article. Move on; it's just a thread.

No-one is trying to spin anything. Nobody cares other than you. So I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be getting over exactly .

Email a mod if you're that bothered

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Depends - multiple mantle threads can get a bit tedious when they all descend into the same thing without fail.



OP has the same title as the original article. Move on; it's just a thread.

No-one is trying to spin anything. Nobody cares other than you. So I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be getting over exactly .

Email a mod if you're that bothered

Yes,you are spinning it.

Lets again look at the OP:

[Editorial] The Game Developers Conference is coming up and both DirectX and OpenGL have queued up some very very interesting reveals. These reveals, as you might have guessed are both dedicated at showing their respective solution to CPU Rendering Overhead and Low Level Access (Microsoft Only). If their claims have any weight what so ever, it wold effectively make Mantle Dead on Arrival. Mantle Dead on Arrival
Microsoft and Nvidia Queue Solutions to CPU Overhead and Low Level Access on GDC’14 – Mantle could be Dead on Arrival
As you probably already know, Mantle Low Level API improves the performance ingame by reducing the CPU Overhead and allowing more draw calls to be submitted to the GPU in a certain time frame. Basically it massively reduces load on the CPU, greatly helping CPU-Bound situations and Weak-CPU configurations. And of course as the name suggests, gives better access to Hardware. Now it seems that other developers have felt greatly threatened by the same because both DirectX and OpenGL are claiming to have solutions to CPU Overhead and improved Low Level Access. If this is true, then Mantle API would loose its edge entirely because Devs will not risk adapting a new API without major incentive. Here are the scheduled addresses for GDC’14:
Direct3D Futures (Presented by Microsoft)
“..discuss future improvements in Direct3D that will allow developers an unprecedented level of hardware control and reduced CPU rendering overhead across a broad ecosystem of hardware. “
DirectX: Evolving Microsoft’s Graphics Platform (Presented by Microsoft)
“You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console.”
Approaching Zero Driver Overhead in OpenGL (Presented by NVIDIA)
“…present high-level concepts available in today’s OpenGL implementations that radically reduce driver overhead–by up to 10x or more. The techniques presented will apply to all major vendors and are suitable for use across multiple platforms.”
Here is what Mantle API’s main features do:
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Low Level Access to the Hardware
More Drawcalls (x9)
New Rendering Techniques
Leveraging Optimization from Next Gen Game Consoles
Now Microsoft is addressing both the Low Level Access issue and the CPU Overhead issue. OpenGL is only adressing the CPU (and Driver) Overhead Issue. Problem is, if these claims are even slightly true then developers lose a lot of incentive to switch to Mantle. DirectX is already established, and if a new patch, and a little elbow grease can give you the same result as Mantle then they wont adapt a completely different API. Heck, OpenGL performs more stably than DirectX on many occasions yet Devs haven’t adopted that. Ofcourse the final factor will be when GDC’14 actually comes, but until then, things aren’t looking good for Mantle. I would also like to add that I felt very disappointed when I saw these queues. If they can suddenly, ‘magically’ pull such solutions out of the air then that means they were least bothered about it before, and only AMD’s pressure forced them to concede.

Not a single point about AMD being part of the session and working on OpenGL.

Sensationalist OP,on purpose ignoring what the thread I started said 9 days earlier:

See,what a little competition ends up doing:

http://www.dsogaming.com/news/direc...el-access-to-reduce-draw-overhead/#more-62436

Thanks AMD for getting the ball rolling and making MS get off their backsides regarding DX.

“In this session we will discuss future improvements in Direct3D that will allow developers an unprecedented level of hardware control and reduced CPU rendering overhead across a broad ecosystem of hardware.”

“For nearly 20 years, DirectX has been the platform used by game developers to create the fastest, most visually impressive games on the planet.

However, you asked us to do more. You asked us to bring you even closer to the metal and to do so on an unparalleled assortment of hardware. You also asked us for better tools so that you can squeeze every last drop of performance out of your PC, tablet, phone and console.”

“Driver overhead has been a frustrating reality for game developers for the entire life of the PC game industry. On desktop systems, driver overhead can decrease frame rate, while on mobile devices driver overhead is more insidious–robbing both battery life and frame rate. In this unprecedented sponsored session, Graham Sellers (AMD), Tim Foley (Intel), Cass Everitt (NVIDIA) and John McDonald (NVIDIA) will present high-level concepts available in today’s OpenGL implementations that radically reduce driver overhead–by up to 10x or more. The techniques presented will apply to all major vendors and are suitable for use across multiple platforms. Additionally, they will demonstrate practical demos of the techniques in action in an extensible, open source comparison framework.”

The article says GDC 2014 and was published on February 26TH.

Both are talking about GDC 2014. Both are talking about OpenGL..

Except his on on purpose twists it to make it look like AMD is not part of it.

Lets look at the article OP linked to - it was posted just after that one I linked to,ie, February 28TH.

But it gets better.

He waited a week until the other thread drop down the list and made this thread on the 7TH.

However,in that thread he is on the first page of replies:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18583194

So he started this thread,after he posted in the other thread himself. He knew that very well.

I like how the mods,find that OK.

 

[Rusty0611]

I'm not spinning it because I haven't even said anything to you about the content of the OP. How can I spin something I've not said anything about? Fail.

Again, email the mods if you're that bothered about it.

 

[Gregster]

Cat, as you can see, I didn't Troll as you put it and did report it exactly how it was. I didn't sensationalise anything and didn't even comment in the OP to save any misreadings.

Take it up with the Mods if you have a problem with me.