disciplinary for unauthorised absence

[Pudney]

Well presumably you should humbly inform them that techically every holiday you have had over the past 4 years has been 'unauthorised' as you have never filled in a 'holiday form'. Ask a few colleagues if they bother with the form or not... Maybe suggest at the meeting that management send out a communication to all employees regarding the correct procedure for booking holiday is I doubt if you are the only one who has made this mistake.

Highlighting you've failed to follow procedures for four years wouldn't be a good idea!

If you have regularly taken holidays without filling in holiday forms etc for over two years, you can probably claim Custom & Practice.

I believe custom and practice applies to an implied benefit, not the process to obtain an actual benefit. Plus in this case the op hasn't done the same thing as previously, i.e. They have written in the diary themselves.

 

[mejinks]

I had a meeting where I had to promise not to nearly die (again) from an undiagnosed abcess bursting in my jaw causing a hospital visit. If I die in the next 8 weeks, I get to have a capability review.

HR and tickboxes...

 

[Nanobot]

Did you actually get to take the days off hence the unauthorised absence, or just the accusation of falsifying leave in diary?
Do they have an unauthorised absence policy? I'm surprised they didn't try and contact you on day one asking where you were if they weren't happy with your diary entry? To let you have two days without contacting you is weird. I take it they have your contact details - they could (should) have contacted you asking where you are...
I wouldn't class unauthorised absence as gross misconduct but it depends on contract, more like written warning but that obviously varies from company to company.
If in doubt, in future email everything, get it in writing. Managers will always save their bacon over yours...

 

[Mr Badger]

I had a meeting where I had to promise not to nearly die (again) from an undiagnosed abcess bursting in my jaw causing a hospital visit. If I die in the next 8 weeks, I get to have a capability review.

HR and tickboxes...

Shouldn't be allowed to take sick leave in the first place - more EU politically correct red tape madness to handicap British business. VOTE OUT!!!

 

[cadmunkey]

Did something major happen whilst you were away that has resulted in this? Seems OTT to me.

 

[adam cool dude]

There is more back story here tbh. A simple unauthorised absence I would issue a counselling but if a repeat offence in a 6 month time frame then a verbal warning. H/R is a complete push over where I work and most people manage to get them overturned so maybe that might be a route to go down if you do receive anything.

Although your manager has done wrong you shouldn't have accepted the holiday as he put it and filled out the correct forms for him to sign. Basically it is your word against his now and you have no proof. Not only could you receive disciplinary action for the unauthorised absence but also you are liable for conduct as you have not filled in the correct forms and followed procedure.

 

[Mr Badger]

OP needs to take the offensive. If the manager is lying to cover his own mistake over this then he has probably done so before. Or the OP has been set up.

Either way get your retaliation in first the GD way - get his home address, find his letterbox...

 

[Efour]

If its all as straight up innocent as it seems then I'd defend my case.

 

[ColdAsIce]

You made this post a few months back:

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18721486

So they might be looking to get rid of you.

 

[McBain]

Verbal warning I would imagine.

 

[plasmahal]

Looks like they've made the OP disappear.

 

[RaohNS]

If you do get a warning ask for the holiday day back, you didn't officially take them off

This 100%

As someone said about if this has been a standard occurrence to not film in a holiday form you do have standing. Unfortunately I don't do employment law things but would recommend contacting ACAS and they can likely provide the exact legal terminology. This can sometimes be enough to knock your employer into touch.

I left my first job over something like this. Told the boss months before a weeks leave. A week before he denied any knowledge of it and said I couldn't go. Told him tough. Came back to a big disciplinary, proved him a liar which they acknowledged "sorry its come to this" etc so I said something like so was I and handed my notice. Effective immediate.

They were shocked and tried usual lines to keep me but after the way they handled it. It was like a Gestapo interrogation. Only came in pick up a pay package after that

 

[mmj_uk]

What happened was I booked two days off with the assistant manager who told me to write it in the diary, turns out that the assistant manager does not know anything about it.

Sounds like you've been stabbed in the back good and proper, no longer a threat to his position at least..

 

[Haze]

Just had a investigation hearing today for unauthorised absence.

What happened was I booked two days off with the assistant manager who told me to write it in the diary, turns out that the assistant manager does not know anything about it. So now it looks like I put my name in the dairy and not told anyone.
It is in my contract that I should have filled a holiday request form two weeks in before the holiday, but I have never been given one I ask and it gets put in the diary.

what is the likely outcome?

i would say you will just get a slap on the back of wrist, and told to make sure you fill out holiday forms in the future

 

[spoffle]

A investigation though

 

[Raumarik]

As someone who gets dragged into disciplinary hearings a lot to investigate people in your position, a few things to check:

1. Company policies or procedures clearly state the route for requesting leave, having it authorised and recorded.

2. YOU have been given the opportunity to read and understand the policies/procedures in the past. If not they've messed up, regardless of what you did.

3. The company stick to the policy/procedure at all times, this includes all managers you deal with, if it's incoherent or simply ignored then again this is the company at fault, not you.

4. Check with co-workers that they've never been in your position, asked to write it in with not written confirmation given from management, if so then ask if they'll be a witness to prove management are not following procedure.

Bottom line is that without documentation neither side can really claim to be in the right here but at the same time they can't discipline you if the company has no uniform practice which is stuck to rigidly by management.

Lastly the one most people forget about:

5. The disciplinary process you're being taken through is within the company policies and is being followed to the letter, if they mess this up then you get a free get out of jail card.

Honest advice from being through these, if you did wrong - put your hands up and admit it at the first opportunity, if not stand your ground, check the points above and stick it to them. I've seen a lot of staff disciplined far more heavily simply because it was clear they broke the rules and they didn't admit it until the last opportunity to do so, wasting hundreds of hours of peoples time, but at the same time I've seen people get completely vindicated when the company was proven to be failing to follow it's own policies.

 

[Diddums]

Lesson learned. ALWAYS have stuff like this in writing. ALWAYS. If you had something from douchebag manager you could've nailed his arse to the wall.

 

[red eye]

Did something major happen whilst you were away that has resulted in this? Seems OTT to me.

i think the manager was peed off because I didt answer my phone, I would have answered if he rang from the work phone.

 

[red eye]

As someone who gets dragged into disciplinary hearings a lot to investigate people in your position, a few things to check:

1. Company policies or procedures clearly state the route for requesting leave, having it authorised and recorded.

2. YOU have been given the opportunity to read and understand the policies/procedures in the past. If not they've messed up, regardless of what you did.

3. The company stick to the policy/procedure at all times, this includes all managers you deal with, if it's incoherent or simply ignored then again this is the company at fault, not you.

4. Check with co-workers that they've never been in your position, asked to write it in with not written confirmation given from management, if so then ask if they'll be a witness to prove management are not following procedure.

Bottom line is that without documentation neither side can really claim to be in the right here but at the same time they can't discipline you if the company has no uniform practice which is stuck to rigidly by management.

Lastly the one most people forget about:

5. The disciplinary process you're being taken through is within the company policies and is being followed to the letter, if they mess this up then you get a free get out of jail card.

Honest advice from being through these, if you did wrong - put your hands up and admit it at the first opportunity, if not stand your ground, check the points above and stick it to them. I've seen a lot of staff disciplined far more heavily simply because it was clear they broke the rules and they didn't admit it until the last opportunity to do so, wasting hundreds of hours of peoples time, but at the same time I've seen people get completely vindicated when the company was proven to be failing to follow it's own policies.

so because company procedure has not been followed regarding the holiday form any disciplinary can be successfully appealed. I still need to talk to acas but your post was helpful thank you

 

[mattyfez]

As I was alluding to in my point above I'd also argue that as a precident of verbal/writing it in the dairy confirmation has been set, that the argument that you didn't get a form signed is null and void, even if forms or some other witten/electionic confirmation are technically company policy as they should be.