Disenfranchisement and I.D. Cards

tom_nieto said:
This is a good thing.
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Yeah. Gov have proved they can provide digital services using existing verification methods without needing an ID card. Given they're a libertarian government who a year ago were happily let a pandemic rip cause people have the human right to go shopping ... it just blatantly reek of US style voter suppression.

It's almost like this Gov learned nothing from the Windrush cluster****.
 
amigafan2003 said:
Postal votes arriving after a deadline is not fraud. It's an administration issue.
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I disagree: it's political. In America postal votes are allowed to arrive late. That's their electoral law. Here in the UK if they arrive late they're not counted. All it takes in America is for a corrupt postmaster to antedate postal ballots and they're good. Not that it actually happened, but it's a sniff of possible fraud that's sufficient to provoke.
 
MagicBoy said:
Yeah. Gov have proved they can provide digital services using existing verification methods without needing an ID card. Given they're a libertarian government who a year ago were happily let a pandemic rip cause people have the human right to go shopping ... it just blatantly reek of US style voter suppression.

It's almost like this Gov learned nothing from the Windrush cluster****.
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ID cards are so 1999 anyway, they should just buy voter information from Facebook.

Don’t get me started on the pandemic...
 
tom_nieto said:
ID cards are so 1999 anyway, they should just buy voter information from Facebook.

Don’t get me started on the pandemic...
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Me either. <Rant about the Tories redacted>

The ID card thing is just generally a strange decision. The concept is a non-starter.

The wider public sector learned a load from the massive monolithic IT system failures under Labour in the early 00s. The global corporations that haemorrhaged public money on failures and attempted lock-ins via proprietary tech generally don't get a look in now. GDS are generally doing a good job. Systems happily interchange data using open standards for anything written in the last few years.

Quartz said:
I disagree: it's political. In America postal votes are allowed to arrive late. That's their electoral law. Here in the UK if they arrive late they're not counted. All it takes in America is for a corrupt postmaster to antedate postal ballots and they're good. Not that it actually happened, but it's a sniff of possible fraud that's sufficient to provoke.
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The postmasters weren't the problem - they were trying to do their job. It was the previous administration's political appointees that attempted to sabotage the USPS to the degree they couldn't deal with standard mail, yet alone the postal votes heading their way in November.
 
Quartz said:
I disagree: it's political. In America postal votes are allowed to arrive late. That's their electoral law. Here in the UK if they arrive late they're not counted. All it takes in America is for a corrupt postmaster to antedate postal ballots and they're good. Not that it actually happened, but it's a sniff of possible fraud that's sufficient to provoke.
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Wait, what?

If it's the law that they are allowed to arrive late, then how is it fraud (which is what you said earlier)?
 
LoadsaMoney said:
I don't have photo I.D, i don't even have a photo DL, still got the old pink paper one, and im going through life fine.
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Maybe you’d never be in this situation, in which case good luck to you, keep going through life, but if Royal Mail, Amazon, DPD, Hermes, or whoever leave a card through your mailbox informing you that they had a delivery for you, and you were out, please come to X depot and collect it, it’s just possible that you’ll be told that your pink paper licence doesn’t cut the mustard.

Randomface74 said:
Big bad scary ID gonna get ya :p
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I’m with you I think, what’s wrong with having photo I.D.?
What are people scared of?
I tried to count how many relatives I have in France, I thought of 28, but my wife reckons it’s 31, every one of them carries une Carte Nationale d’Identité, they’ve always had them and see it as perfectly normal.
The Carte isn’t compulsory, but all citizens must carry some form of government issued identity document.

plasmahal said:
Absolute rubbish, they have £20 of taxpayers money to spend on fags so there is no excuse.
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Difficult to argue with that, although we’ll probably be accused of being minted aristocrats.
 
amigafan2003 said:
Wait, what?

If it's the law that they are allowed to arrive late, then how is it fraud (which is what you said earlier)?
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Depends on the state as to what the laws are. It's not the UK, so not really up for discussion in this thread. Feel free to discuss it somewhere else or read the posts on it from last November in US election threads.
 
Jean-F said:
Maybe you’d never be in this situation, in which case good luck to you, keep going through life, but if Royal Mail, Amazon, DPD, Hermes, or whoever leave a card through your mailbox informing you that they had a delivery for you, and you were out, please come to X depot and collect it, it’s just possible that you’ll be told that your pink paper licence doesn’t cut the mustard..
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What's that got to do with the price of fish? There's no basis for insisting on a Photo ID. You just need to prove you reside at the delivery address. Other forms of ID are acceptable - bank statement, council tax bill etc.
 
ID cards make sense to me, the Labour scheme never should have been scrapped. They should be voluntary though. They could have been used for trading around Europe, no passport needed. Accepted ID for bars and clubs, voting etc.. People over 65 or whatever the age is should get there for free like they do with the bus pass. And discounted for people on benefits. ;)
 
MagicBoy said:
What's that got to do with the price of fish? There's no basis for insisting on a Photo ID. You just need to prove you reside at the delivery address. Other forms of ID are acceptable - bank statement, council tax bill etc.
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I stepped on a banana skin there, I’d genuinely forgotten that they are acceptable, I was just thinking that the old pink driving licence wouldn’t be acceptable, as it bore no photo, a thousand apologies :mad:
 
Seriously how can anyone say that ID to vote is a problem? It's standard in lots of countries, and that stupid excuse about mostly poor people not having ID is irrelevant crap. They will have plenty of time and warning to get one, and if they still can't be bothered that's their own fault.
 
englishpremier said:
ID cards make sense to me, the Labour scheme never should have been scrapped. They should be voluntary though. They could have been used for trading around Europe, no passport needed. Accepted ID for bars and clubs, voting etc.. People over 65 or whatever the age is should get there for free like they do with the bus pass. And discounted for people on benefits. ;)
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They don't. It's using authoritarian tools of the state to oppress the poor.
 
XeNoN89 said:
Seriously how can anyone say that ID to vote is a problem? It's standard in lots of countries, and that stupid excuse about mostly poor people not having ID is irrelevant crap. They will have plenty of time and warning to get one, and if they still can't be bothered that's their own fault.
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We're not other countries. Or a country where you require citizenship. Or a republic. It's the UK.
 
XeNoN89 said:
Seriously how can anyone say that ID to vote is a problem? It's standard in lots of countries, and that stupid excuse about mostly poor people not having ID is irrelevant crap. They will have plenty of time and warning to get one, and if they still can't be bothered that's their own fault.
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I don't mind it to vote, I would object to it being compulsory to carry ID though
 
Blackjack Davy said:
We already have photo i.d.s? Its called driving licence and passport both of which I had to get photographed for and renewed for recently and it wasn't cheap.
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The step-mother has never had a passport, never left the UK. Doesn't drive. She does vote. Ironically probably Tory...
 
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