Distasteful vegan TV ad

[D.P.]

I did read that section also... But you could have put the bit JUST above that quote in as well given its relevant.



Hill farming itself is not detrimental to the environment. Doing it incorrectly is but that is the same for the vast majority of things - over do it and its harmful. Over production/use of arable lands to grow the very crops for a meat free diet can cause soil erosion and loss of diversity *shrug*

But far less land is used to grow the crops required for a vegan diet

 

[jigger]

We over feed animals producing much lower quality meat, we could just feed animals more appropriate food and the correct amount and we'd still see massive savings in land use

When a crop fails expected standards it sometimes makes sense to offer it as food stock.

 

[413x]

I’m not. Cattle eat very low quality easily managed foods because cattle can extract nutrients more effectively. It’s not a one-one comparison per area unit.
You need to carful when considering ‘arable land’ as it isn’t all suitable for the same crops or types of cultivation.

Intensively farmed cattle do have a lot of supplemental food. There's a lot of variation between farms, but there's always a saving from what I gather in terms of carbon release for beef. Especially in areas where land is valuable. Ie UK. There will be a lot of supplement feed used

 

[D.P.]

We over feed animals producing much lower quality meat, we could just feed animals more appropriate food and the correct amount and we'd still see massive savings in land use

That wouldn't change things much at all. The problem is animals are just inherently massively inefficient at converting raw calories into meat. Something entirely avoided by just eating the plants directly.

 

[D.P.]

I’m not. Cattle eat very low quality easily managed foods because cattle can extract nutrients more effectively. It’s not a one-one comparison per area unit.
You need to carful when considering ‘arable land’ as it isn’t all suitable for the same crops or types of cultivation.

The numerous peer-reviewed studies take that into account, don't you worry.

 

[jigger]

Intensively farmed cattle do have a lot of supplemental food. There's a lot of variation between farms, but there's always a saving from what I gather in terms of carbon release for beef. Especially in areas where land is valuable. Ie UK. There will be a lot of supplement feed used

Yeah.

 

[jigger]

The numerous peer-reviewed studies take that into account, don't you worry.

Never read one that proposed a movement towards veganism as a solution.

Maybe vegans will eat sugar beats, field beans and silage etc.

 

[Richie]

But far less land is used to grow the crops required for a vegan diet

That wasn't my question:

What happens to the vast hill farms currently maintained by grazing livestock?

I am referring to the land itself i.e. what happens to it if not used to graze animals on which, if done correctly, helps maintain habitats in nature.

 

[tonys]

What happens in this vegan utopia when there are massive crop failures? Which has happened in the past.

 

[Thekwango]

What happens in this vegan utopia when there are massive crop failures? Which has happened in the past.

Same thing that happens now. Cost of living increases and the poorer end of the social spectrum get screwed hard trying to feed themselves.

 

[413x]

What happens in this vegan utopia when there are massive crop failures? Which has happened in the past.

If diversified it shouldn't be a problem. In fact, it's probably more of a problem for meat farming as there are fewer varieties of crops used.

 

[jigger]

If diversified it shouldn't be a problem. In fact, it's probably more of a problem for meat farming as there are fewer varieties of crops used.

Depends. Cows will eat most things even failed crops.

 

[413x]

Depends. Cows will eat most things even failed crops.

But the intensive farming requires maxing FCR. Feeding sub optimally is going to hurt FCR. Margins are so thin it's probably not in profits interest.

I'm not totally clued up on beef farming (more dairy) where it probably matters a bit less.. But FCR is so important for farmers profits

 

[flea.rider]

in the coming cold times .. i'm sure i'm going to have to turn to the vegans .. one or 2 a month to feed the familly or at least the dogs ..

 

[Moothead2]

45 pages of discourse over an incredibly tame, honestly kinda hilarious advert, in less than a week lmao. We really delve deep into the worlds real problems around here don't we .

 

[Thekwango]

We really delve deep into the worlds real problems around here don't we .

more like we have a few semi insane folk who just like to keep going round and round and round and round in circles posting about things they think they know about because they've read some wiki articles or 'peer reviewed' malarkey (sorry i mean study) ...............this is both sides of the debate i am talking about, i hasten to add

 

[jigger]

But the intensive farming requires maxing FCR. Feeding sub optimally is going to hurt FCR. Margins are so thin it's probably not in profits interest.

I'm not totally clued up on beef farming (more dairy) where it probably matters a bit less.. But FCR is so important for farmers profits

It is but so are crops. Anything not fit for the open market is a loss. You could use it as manure I suppose.

 

[Crizzy]

45 pages of discourse over an incredibly tame, honestly kinda hilarious advert, in less than a week lmao. We really delve deep into the worlds real problems around here don't we .

It's a very emotive subject.

To be honest I've found it to be mainly constructive and appreciate the comments people have put forward. I'm certainly no expert on the topic.

 

[Johno please?]

Well the argument you're trying to make is completely irrelevant at this point. You're not capable of having a discussion without turning on the taps and having a cute little meltdown in every single one of your posts, so I'm just sat here laughing at the counterproductivity you're achieving with your posts.

You don't seem to be able to grasp this though, your brain is literally stuck at "ehrmehgehrd poor animals" and anyone not buying in to your whingefest is pure evil according to you. Even the slightest attempt to reason with you is met with your usual emo nonsense, sadly until you change your ways you're not convincing anyone.

So to recap, you're not capable of reason, you're not capable of listening, you're not capable of getting your message across without doing more harm to your cause, you are the only person in these threads so passionate about the subject (moon man has some interesting points, but nowhere near as dramatic as you) and you choose to either attack or ignore anyone who doesn't hold your hand and cry for the poor animals.

So there are a few outcomes here:

• Either you and Moon are the only two vegans in this thread.
• There are more vegans in this thread but they also think you're nuts and are keeping schtum.
• Us carnivores are so amused by your little mental breakdowns in every post that you're literally not achieving anything

TL;DR: the vegans aren't supporting you and the carnivores are laughing at you.

That's what your're achieving.

I'd be questioning my mental health right now if I were you.

haha I should question my mental health because im countering peoples bad "arguments" excusing animal abuse?, amazing.

I could sit in the vegan reddit but im quite happy not to be in an echo chamber unlike like you.

Everyone eats a plants based diet compare with actual carnivores - what percentage of the UK''s calories comes from meat? It's like 5% of calories from meat
if 90+% of most US/UK people's calories come from plants then what else would you call that as a diet, its not meat based is it

I've no idea, id hazard a guess it was more than 5% though. There is no health outcome data supporting the carnivore diet, you live in a fantasy world.

There is a carnivorecringe instagram though which is hilarious.

Chineses and American coal and gas power stations. Aviation and concrete production. lack of nuclear power generation and ICE transport. That list is 90% of the worlds biggest killers and threats to life.

What power do I have over the coal and gas industry though? Apart from putting fuel in my car once a month that is... (i cycle to work)

The single biggest impact we can have is to go vegan, better for the animals and better for the environment.

 

[jigger]

haha I should question my mental health because im countering peoples bad "arguments" excusing animal abuse?, amazing.

I could sit in the vegan reddit but im quite happy not to be in an echo chamber unlike like you.



I've no idea, id hazard a guess it was more than 5% though. There is no health outcome data supporting the carnivore diet, you live in a fantasy world.

There is a carnivorecringe instagram though which is hilarious.



What power do I have over the coal and gas industry though? Apart from putting fuel in my car once a month that is... (i cycle to work)

The single biggest impact we can have is to go vegan, better for the animals and better for the environment.

Use less Chinese and American made products?