Do gamers expect a master piece everytime?

I think people want something more like the 'games of old'; initial simplicity, depth, longevity and originality. The legendary games of the past two decades have these traits in abundance; Age of Empires II, the Sim City series, Half Life, the Civilization series, Unreal Tournament, Diablo II, the Grand Theft Auto series (particularly GTA 1 and 3, IMO), World of Warcraft - the list goes on.

People also want their games at a fair price. It is an innately dissatisfying feeling to have an 'incomplete' game and a bunch of downloadable content, and subscription-based games have to be on an epic scale to be worth it - arguably why World of Warcraft is so successful.

You only have to look at the latest Sim City to see why people become frustrated:

1. Always online play for a game that didn't really need to be online, but they wanted to force gamer/city interaction. That's fine, and sometimes you have to force things to move things on and create new styles of play, but do not launch the game and have galactically huge server issues. If it were a small software house new to the world, people would be forgiving, but for a corporate giant like EA to make this mistake is not something people can swallow.

2. Multiple versions on day one. Nobody wants half a game, and paying £20 more to have a few building styles is a farce. This is what encourages people to buy through Indian retailers etc.

3. Features that absolutely every Sim City gamer would have said from day one were necessary are missing, and will probably appear later on as DLC.

4. Huge gameplay/simulation bugs that ruin the game. EA/Maxis announce that they didn't come up in testing as if it's an excuse, when evidently the testing was missing the aspect of having actual gamers play it. As if any Sim City builder wasn't going to first build the densest and biggest city they could?

All people wanted from the new Sim City were the promised features and a working simulation, yet they didn't even get a game that could load. It's now been Live for 2.5 weeks and game features are still disabled, simulation is still broken. That's why people complain.
 
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Space Monkey said:
Don't get me wrong, I too hate companies that knowingly lie about features and rush an unfinished product to market, and I totally detest DLC/micro transactions, maybe because I was brought up on the spectrum / commodore era, but if we 'saps' keep' pumping in our money why would they change their habits?
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I agree to a certain extent but the industry as a whole is lacking consumer standards that other industries are held to, In how many other industries are unfinished products allowed to go to market?
Do car companies sell cars then say we could not finish the breaks in time for release but give us a couple of weeks & we will send them out, or film company's that have not had any special effects added to the film yet get released then you have to download a patch to add them when the DVD comes out?
I know they are extreme examples but it's still a valid argument in my eyes, is it time we had product standards that publishers/Dev were held accountable to?
 
I think some standards would be useful. Ideally the industry would self-regulate, and the 'High Quality Game' standard would be an important accolade for successful games development companies to hold. Development groups who repeatedly flout the rules would simply be kicked out, the industry would frown on them and gamers would avoid their works.
 
In general, the only complaints I have about the industry lay with 2, maybe 3 publishers.

People insist on purchasing their shiny turds for some reason, year on year.

Until the mindless ones stop throwing away their money in their millions, nothing will change.
 
elmuzzy66. said:
sim city
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Really? You used that as an example? Get out!

I kid of course, but they had well deserved harsh criticism, mostly everything they said it could do, or would do was a lie, the product wasn't and still isn't finished.
I'm not sure about bf3 though, overall I thought it did well in the eyes of others.
 
I don't think anyone arbitrarily pulls silly high expectations from their behinds, they tend to set them via:
- Main competitor of the genre
- Previous games of the same series

The main competitor one is tough, because obviously you're trying to do your own thing as a developer. But people aren't unreasonable here, they're essentially looking at the polish and feel of the game.

Look at MMOs. WoW become every MMOs main competitor... now a lot of developers mistook this for "remake WoW!" and went out of their way to copy the UI, questing, progression etc. Yet one of the absolute biggest achievements of WoW (and any Blizzard game for that matter) was just how utterly polished the experience and feel is, everything is smooth and responsive, everything reacts intuitively to your input with nice visual feedback whether through animations or effects. You're then getting the series of WoW clones who have overlooked that and you're playing what from a gameplay point of view like pretty much the same thing, only now the camera is awkward and doesn't feel like it responds properly, you press abilities that don't give any visceral feedback at all on the screen giving a disconnect to what's happening. It's no surprise nobody is going to give them the time of day.

Then there is just the previous games of the series. If someone likes <Gamename> and they make <Gamename 2> and they've gone backwards with it, maybe dropped some core features, maybe moved to a new engine which isn't that great or whatever. Then you have the double whammy of not only people not giving them their time of day but an actual sense of betrayal to a loved game. There is no quicker way to ditch a fanbase tbh.
 
DrToffnar said:
.........Gamers are probably the most intelligent conumer base you could market to...............
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HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAA

**AND BREATHE ***

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAA

No, just no. You almost had me there ;-)
 
Spektor said:
WoW become every MMOs main competitor... now a lot of developers mistook this for "remake WoW!" and went out of their way to copy the UI, questing, progression etc. Yet one of the absolute biggest achievements of WoW (and any Blizzard game for that matter) was just how utterly polished the experience and feel is, everything is smooth and responsive, everything reacts intuitively to your input with nice visual feedback whether through animations or effects.
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Did you play WOW on release? because I did not recall it being all that polished back then.
 
I just want a game where it feels like the developer gave a **** at some point during it's development.
 
Divinious said:
Did you play WOW on release? because I did not recall it being all that polished back then.
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The gameplay experience wasn't, the logging in experience definitely wasn't. But I hold those separate to what I described with the feel and visceral feedback to your input that can truly immerse you into a game if done correctly.

Also the main competitor isn't ever compared on how it was on it's release, it's compared on how it is now against the new blood. But I still hold that overall that people are a reasonable bunch, they expect that something is probably going to have a ropey launch, that it isn't going to be overflowing with content and maybe the artists and designers will take a couple of years to get the most out of the engine.

Look at Guild Wars 2... the camera in that was flat out abysmal, people made thread after thread after thread during beta saying there is something very off with it and nothing was done. I know of the 4-5 people I started playing GW2 with, one stopped playing almost immediately due to the camera, 2 others stopped playing due to a mix of reasons but slammed the camera control pretty heavily leading towards them having the feeling of bad gameplay as a result. Then a few months after the games population has dropped away considerably a patch note of 'We removed the acceleration from the camera'. It's a shame developers don't take that stuff more seriously because it's a beautiful game, it's got a lot of nice content, it has probably hands down the best leveling experience you can have in an MMO, all completely undermined by such a silly little thing as having someone sit down to tweak it and get it right.

Then Rift. This game had a terrible animation system, something 9/10 WoW clones are guilty of. You would attack a mob, your little auto attack animation would be swinging away and then you press a special... and a yellow number pops up above the head of the mob, but nothing else is happening, the same auto attack animation is playing on screen then WHAM! after a few seconds waiting for the current auto attack animation cycle to finish the animation for the ability you pressed goes off. So you have this immediate disconnect to what you're doing and what's happening on screen, that you see the yellow number but nothing happens, then seconds later the abilities animation comes, which has actually already dealt it's effect so isn't now going to display the yellow number for it... it just makes everything feel laggy or weird or just meh. MOST WoW clones on that frigging gamebryo engine do this sort of thing and it really is the quickest way to turn people off your game.
 
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DrToffnar said:
The notion that 'they're only out to make money' is ridiculously outdated and doesn't really apply to the gaming industry. Gamers are probably the most intelligent conumer base you could market to, a lot of us wont take being back handed. Consumers respect honesty and reliability more then anything else.
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What? Gamers are amongst the stupidest of consumers who put up with products that simply would not sell in any other market.

Also, *every* company's basic principal is to make money. Sure, you'll have a handful of devs who are passionate about what they do and would do it for free if they could, but the company as a whole that they work for has one purpose - to be successful, and to build on that success and the only way you can do that is to make the $$$

You only need to look at the industry as a whole to see all the money grabbing techniques appearing that weren't around a few years back, paid for DLC's becoming patches for unfinished games, micro transactions, pay to play schemes, sub based MMO's with money transactions on top of the sub ..the list goes on and on.
 
Divinious said:
Did you play WOW on release? because I did not recall it being all that polished back then.
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You probably recall wrong then, it worked and had uimods well before release too, it's one of my fondest gaming memories as it was so different from the MMOs I had tried, while simpler it had it's own merits.

I remember the exact day, what I did, where we went and at least on my server the queues were mere minutes. Made a few vids although it isn't uploaded since it's full of teamspeak talk and crappy 2005 quality recording fraps D: Loads of pics too. Didn't have real issues compared to today since gaming is a lot more popular.

Back on wow release it still wasn't that huge game everyone knew about, that took a few months, it was full of people who'd played UO/EQ/AO/SWG/L1&2 and such. That can attribute to low queues and such, not to be mixed by future expansion queues.
 
Developers clearly not caring about the quality of the game is always going to generate hate. Look at Dragon Age. It wasn't a masterpiece but it was a damn good game that you hoped could have been improved on. The Day One DLC of The Stone Prisoner was quality as well. Then came the sequel. A game with glowing reviews that were blatantly purchased and was clearly unfinished to anyone who isn't pants on head retarded, all the while the devs defending it tooth and nail, simply not wanting to admit anything was wrong.

Its not about expecting a masterpiece, its about potential. Its hard not to see the potential of some games so when so much of it is wasted it rags a bit. Look at the Mass Effect series. First one had its issues but was pretty good. Second one made the combat feel more polished but lost the majority of its customisation and began to show clear signs that the 'choices' weren't actually going to matter much. Third one came along, most of the changes from 2 to 3 were for the worst, and then it climaxed with possibly the most hated ending ever that made it obvious the promises they'd made about choices having an effect were empty.

And C&C Generals 2? The game everyone was praying would bring back some life to the C&C series that EA were rapidly killing off has been completely ruined and its not even out yet!
 
I would rather devs paid more attention to the basics, like less repetition of monotonous sound loops in conversation, rather than push forward new eye candy all time.
 
Engaging the player is more important than fancy graphics in my opinion.. That'swhy games like "mark of ninja" are so good, they add new content, make it fun and engage your brain more than "Lets kill that guy cos he has a bomb on his face"
 
Divinious said:
Did you play WOW on release? because I did not recall it being all that polished back then.
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I played WoW from closed beta till about 3-4 years post-release (~6 months after WOTLK), and it was polished from the first time I logged in. Coming from UO and Neocron, it was one of the first things I noticed. The gameplay didn't have a patch on either of those 2, but in terms of pure slickness it was great!

Re: the OP.

If you paid ~£35 for a DVD that didn't play on your DVD player until an new version was released 2 weeks later, that would randomly stop and eject itself, half the actors and plot were missing unless you paid extra for them, and ended up only being 30 mins long, would you not feel a bit ripped off?
 
Scougar said:
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**AND BREATHE ***

HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAA

No, just no. You almost had me there ;-)
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Well, yes. Casual gamers and a considerable amount of console gamers are responsible for where the industry is going. I dont think you qualify as a 'gamer' unless you emotionally invest in the medium. (not saying console gamers aren't invested, just that a larger percentage only use there systems say 3 days in a week) I believe that anyone who spends over £500 building a gaming rig is passionate enough about the industry to make tough boycotting decisions that could possibly turn it around.
Just look at the whole ME3 fiasco and how that was somewhat resolved. Gamers emotionally invest in there medium in a way that other consumers don't. Sure we whine and complain and a lot of us do nothing about it but atleast we still raise our voices. And a lot of us actually do go so far as to boycott entire publishers if they provide us with an unsatisfactory service. That show's a level of devotion and commitment that points directly to intellignce.
 
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