Do graphics really need to be any better than they are right now?

Kreeeee said:
People are far too attached to graphics. Graphical style is far more important than photo realism and gameplay easily comes above anything graphical.
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Aye, I have never been a big fan of uber graphics, even my old pc days I would only have a cheap graphics card. I would take average looking game over say crysis, all show and no go.
 
dustiestrat said:
i remember when the original gran turismo first came out , it blew me aware how good the game looked . recently saw a shot of it on larrys retro corner on sky's game channel and i thought to myself that really doesnt look all that compared to nowadays . i know for a fact that in say 5-6 yrs time i'll be saying same thing about all the games we think look good now . u dont realise how much something can improve until you can look back at it.
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Agreed almost everyone has rose tinted glasses and what was good/great then is not so now in the graphics department as that the one thing that moves with the times more so that any other part of the game really as each gen the one thing that get better most of the time is the graphics.

I wonder how much,cost will come into it in the future will it come a time when it will cost to much to get the best out of the hardware or maybe only the top company's will have enough money/sales to make their games look the best as it gets into very high 10's of millions to the 100 million (not really sure what a top game cost to make now?)and more and start to get even a bigger gap between top and average company's
 
Kreeeee said:
Don't get me wrong, I know graphics need to improve with time but it definitely shouldn't be emphasised anywhere near as much as it is now. Too many games are crippled by too much thought going into graphics and not other areas.
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But that the point of next gen pc cards and consoles the graphics is the one thing that stands out.
Take planescape torment i am playing at the moment a classic some people rate it as one of the best rpg ever.
How would you improve it the easiest way would be to make it look better straight away you can see the difference by a screenshot without even playing it and people would go wow and buy it.
Graphics and is the one thing most people can agree on getting better from gen to gen gameplay is harder as people disagree more as there is more to it than graphic.
Take planetscape again ask 1000 people how you would improve gameplay and you more likely get 100 different answers.
Look at EA every year they bring out the same games and tweak it a bit and it sells loads why do people buy the same game that been tweaked a little bit?.
 
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Crysis is closing in on the graphical goal. When we can buy a £120 card that can play GTA-style games on the Crysis engine on Very High, at 1900 x 1200, then I will be happy.
 
queamin said:
But that the point of next gen pc cards and consoles the graphics is the one thing that stands out,take planescape torment i am playing at the moment a classic,people rate it as one of the best rpg ever, now how would you improve it the easiest way would be to make it look better,straight away you can see the difference by a screenshot without even playing it and people would go wow and buy it.
Graphics and is the one thing most people can agree on getting better from gen to gen gameplay is harder as people disagree more as there is more to it than graphic.
Take planetscape again ask 1000 people how you would improve gameplay and you more likely get 100 different answers.
Look at EA every year they bring out the same games and tweak it a bit and it sells loads why do people buy the same game that been tweaked a little bit?.
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Would you mind condensing your point to a sentence or two? I find it hard to follow you.
 
Kreeeee said:
Would you mind condensing your point to a sentence or two? I find it hard to follow you.
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He's just, correctly, pointing out that in the mass market driven consumerist society we live in, the visuals are the selling point. Without a selling point a game will have to survive on its gameplay merits, it takes a special game to be exeptional enough to sell on its gameplay merits alone. Most games, sadly, are far from exceptional. We are all guilty of fuelling this sales mechanic, like it or not, if 2 new games are launched, one a mega budget eye-candy fest and the other a third party experimental venture into new territory 99% of the high street buck will go on the big name title, the blockbuster as opposed to the cannes champ if you will.

Simple fact is if you want to sell millions of units you can either slap a coat of DX10 or whatever on it or come up with something truly special and THEN see it fail because the graphics weren't up to scratch. If i was proposing a title i know where my bets would be. Refering back to a point i made earlier, it will not be until we take perfect graphics as a given that we will see truly innovative games pervade the mass market. Until then the youthful VG market will always be drawn to the visuals like horny schoolboys to an FHM cover.
 
Ultra_Extreme said:
He's just, correctly, pointing out that in the mass market driven consumerist society we live in, the visuals are the selling point. Without a selling point a game will have to survive on its gameplay merits, it takes a special game to be exeptional enough to sell on its gameplay merits alone. Most games, sadly, are far from exceptional. We are all guilty of fuelling this sales mechanic, like it or not, if 2 new games are launched, one a mega budget eye-candy fest and the other a third party experimental venture into new territory 99% of the high street buck will go on the big name title, the blockbuster as opposed to the cannes champ if you will.

Simple fact is if you want to sell millions of units you can either slap a coat of DX10 or whatever on it or come up with something truly special and THEN see it fail because the graphics weren't up to scratch. If i was proposing a title i know where my bets would be. Refering back to a point i made earlier, it will not be until we take perfect graphics as a given that we will see truly innovative games pervade the mass market. Until then the youthful VG market will always be drawn to the visuals like horny schoolboys to an FHM cover.
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I don't believe that tbh. StarCraft has sold an incredible number of copies on gameplay alone. At it's release it was dated but it still remains by far the most popular RTS game out there. I don't deny that currently graphics sell games but I think if a developer created a fantastic playing game that didn't focus on graphics that it would still sell very well in the current market.

The Wii outsells the competition many times over despite not having the graphical prowess of its competitors because it offers a richer gameplay experience. I genuinely think Nintendo are going down the right path and can;t wait to see what Sony and MS release to catch up to them.
 
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Kreeeee said:
I don't believe that tbh. StarCraft has sold an incredible number of copies on gameplay alone. At it's release it was dated but it still remains by far the most popular RTS game out there. I don't deny that currently graphics sell games but I think if a developer created a fantastic playing game that didn't focus on graphics that it would still sell very well in the current market.

The Wii outsells the competition many times over despite not having the graphical prowess of its competitors because it offers a richer gameplay experience. I genuinely think Nintendo are going down the right path and can;t wait to see what Sony and MS release to catch up to them.
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The Wii is a toy, a great toy but still a toy, it outsells because not only does ninty have a huge fan base but owners of the other consoles will own it ASWELL, whereas your less likeloy to see someone own a PS3 and a 360.

RTS games are not mass market and never will be, an RTS could come out that is the best game ever made, it still wont sell (as compared to GTA or an FPS).

Your missing my point, the world we live in is static and isnt suddenly going to change. The majority will always want graphics, so all the big games will be highly graphical even to the detriment of other areas. It wont be until all graphics are perfect that the big budgets will combine with great ideas and stories to make truly exceptional games.
 
3D gaming is wheres the next enhancement will be imo

I played COD4 in 3D at i33 :eek: with the glasses etc

OMG was really good, a bit strange at first! but once you got into it, you will never look back. Imagine looking at the world through a window, it was like that!!!! very realistic.
 
Ultra_Extreme said:
The Wii is a toy, a great toy but still a toy, it outsells because not only does ninty have a huge fan base but owners of the other consoles will own it ASWELL, whereas your less likeloy to see someone own a PS3 and a 360.

RTS games are not mass market and never will be, an RTS could come out that is the best game ever made, it still wont sell (as compared to GTA or an FPS).

Your missing my point, the world we live in is static and isnt suddenly going to change. The majority will always want graphics, so all the big games will be highly graphical even to the detriment of other areas. It wont be until all graphics are perfect that the big budgets will combine with great ideas and stories to make truly exceptional games.
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The 360 and PS3 are just as much a toy as the Wii is.

StarCraft sold 9.5 million, while Half Life sold 8 million.

Graphically very poor games (even at their release) that sold damn well on gameplay alone:

Pokemon 165 million
Tetris 70 million

I think you're missing my point. The fact is great games do sell well if the public find out about them (cult classics don't sell well primarily because no one has heard or tried the games imo) even if the graphics are poor and I think more companies should take this risk to help revitalise a horribly stagnant market.
 
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Will be interesting to see how successful GTA 4 is, any estimates, GTA 4 will be good graphicaly and continue its excellent gameplay.

So i m expecting couple of million sales in the first week.
 
-Colli$ion- said:
Will be interesting to see how successful GTA 4 is, any estimates, GTA 4 will be good graphicaly and continue its excellent gameplay.

So i m expecting couple of million sales in the first week.
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I'd expect it to sell better than any game this generation.

The old GTA games were fugly but still outsold even the prettiest FPS.
 
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Kreeeee said:
I'd expect it to sell better than any game this generation.

The old GTA games were fugly but still outsold even the prettiest FPS.
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What you got to remember is, some first person shooters are not released on games consoles, only PC's i.e. crysis so you cant compare the likes of say GTA: San Andreas with it, as obviously it has a wider market.
 
-Colli$ion- said:
What you got to remember is, some first person shooters are not released on games consoles, only PC's i.e. crysis so you cant compare the likes of say GTA: San Andreas with it, as obviously it has a wider market.
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A lot of the niche PC market are just graphics whores, so it's very hard to make a fair general overview of the entire games market but even in that market games like StarCraft, TF2 and portal sell very well.

I genuinely believe that a great game will sell well despite it's lack graphical prowess. This is the only point I wish to make.
 
Kreeeee said:
A lot of the niche PC market are just graphics whores, so it's very hard to make a fair general overview of the entire games market but even in that market games like StarCraft, TF2 and portal sell very well.

I genuinely believe that a great game will sell well despite it's lack graphical prowess. This is the only point I wish to make.
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True, a good game does not need excellent graphics! although in todays age I would personaly frown upon any game who have just ignored the graphics.

I was a great fan of HL1, was awesome back in the day.
 
Its amazing how far we have come in so little time, when i was in school Half-Life was the best games out, now look at the enhancements since half-life!!! we are moving at an encredible pace. I cannot wait to see what games the future holds :)
 
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