Do we really need a 5090 ?

Rroff · 2 Oct 2023 at 04:36

TNA said:
My point stands. The card won't be anything special in 2 gens time

Will probably be the performance you get from a 6060 Ti or something

With both TSMC and Samsung producing a revised 4nm process for nVidia and *other customer* (2024) and TSMC attempting to leapfrog the 3nm process for a "2nm" one for nVidia and Apple (2025) I don't think we'll be waiting for the current 4000 model replacements as long as a lot of the hardware sites are claiming.

Dicehunter · 2 Oct 2023 at 10:08

Rroff said:
With both TSMC and Samsung producing a revised 4nm process for nVidia and *other customer* (2024) and TSMC attempting to leapfrog the 3nm process for a "2nm" one for nVidia and Apple (2025) I don't think we'll be waiting for the current 4000 model replacements as long as a lot of the hardware sites are claiming.

Well it was Nvidia's own presentation that showed Spring 2025, I still reckon mid October 2024 though with the date on their presentation just there to throw the competition off.

Troezar · 2 Oct 2023 at 10:48

Wake me up when they actually have some games worth paying to play. Maybe I'm just getting old but shiny visuals seem the priority over fun gameplay. I think the devs need to start working on novel and imaginative gameplay, at that point you don't notice whether the graphics are lifelike or not. I blame the corporate takeover, everything is a low risk rehash of previous IP.

Purgatory · 2 Oct 2023 at 11:04

Dicehunter said:
Well it was Nvidia's own presentation that showed Spring 2025, I still reckon mid October 2024 though with the date on their presentation just there to throw the competition off.

What competition ?

1- The company that said no high end gpus next generation and only midrange ?

2- The one still struggling to get into the market with a product that actually works correctly ?

3- The company already ahead in the market by over 80% and doesn't really care about gaming gpus and into the A.I bubble now coming from mining backdoor sales ?

Reality is no one really cares at the moment as the performance increases (should really say decreases for some products) in the midrange and price has gone silly and in some cases products like the xx80 class doubles in price overnight for a 30% increase from previous gen. The top cards the xx90 class are really the real xx80 class (gaming cards and not a creator or titan replacement, no NVLINK and no memory increase again) as they should have been but 3x the price of the normal xx80 class they should be and then the main competition is basically doing the same games too..

Basically until the above is fixed and some normality is back in the market the whole industry "PC gaming" will suffer and if Sony bring out a PS5 Pro that is again double the performance of their original model as they did with PS4 to Pro then the PC gaming is going to take a big hit as Sony will not be charging £1000 + for what should have been a midrange card. Anyways worlds gone mad, stupidity and greed seem to rule now and a government that should be called Titanic-ories, they sank this country to where it is and allowed corruption to come into our daily lives from every service we use now as they set the standards/examples and the rest followed and of course they sat back and allowed it to happen to hide what they are really doing and should be doing... Smoke and mirrors really...

Anyways hope you are all well and my Monday rant is now done. 5090 will be the first £2000 card (but really what should have been the 5080) and 5090Ti £2500+, 5080 £1500+.. At this rate..

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 2 Oct 2023 at 11:18

Purgatory said:
What competition ?

1- The company that said no high end gpus next generation and only midrange ?

2- The one still struggling to get into the market with a product that actually works correctly ?

3- The company already ahead in the market by over 80% and doesn't really care about gaming gpus and into the A.I bubble now coming from mining backdoor sales ?

Reality is no one really cares at the moment as the performance increases (should really say decreases for some products) in the midrange and price has gone silly and in some cases products like the xx80 class doubles in price overnight for a 30% increase from previous gen. The top cards the xx90 class are really the real xx80 class (gaming cards and not a creator or titan replacement, no NVLINK and no memory increase again) as they should have been but 3x the price of the normal xx80 class they should be and then the main competition is basically doing the same games too..

Basically until the above is fixed and some normality is back in the market the whole industry "PC gaming" will suffer and if Sony bring out a PS5 Pro that is again double the performance of their original model as they did with PS4 to Pro then the PC gaming is going to take a big hit as Sony will not be charging £1000 + for what should have been a midrange card. Anyways worlds gone mad, stupidity and greed seem to rule now and a government that should be called Titanic-ories, they sank this country to where it is and allowed corruption to come into our daily lives from every service we use now as they set the standards/examples and the rest followed and of course they sat back and allowed it to happen to hide what they are really doing and should be doing... Smoke and mirrors really...

Anyways hope you are all well and my Monday rant is now done. 5090 will be the first £2000 card (but really what should have been the 5080) and 5090Ti £2500+, 5080 £1500+.. At this rate..

Also release a card with barely no stock at RRP in the UK,not available for weeks from multiple retailers,and then the price essentially rises to match that of the overpriced competitor card which launched 5 months later. Then when more stock lands remove all the game bundles which made it OK value in the first place.

Also BOTH renaming lower end cards as higher end ones,meaning mainstream cards which most people buy(just look at Steam) have terribad performance.

The worst thing about this is the PS5 PRO looks like it will be RTX4070/RX7800XT performance,so this level of performance should be in £400 class cards now,not in 12 months time. It is quite clear MS is going to bypass a refresh and push for the XBox Series X replacement to arrive earlier.

There is no competition now - just a cabal with a Gentleman's agreement. Now PCMR is dependent consoles to force these companies to produce decent value products. Its no coincidence the RTX3000/RX6000 series 2020 line-ups(which were decent value and a decent generational uplift for all the products),happened at the same time the consoles were released. It was the 2021 releases which were terrible value as their greed took over.

Troezar · 2 Oct 2023 at 11:26

CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
Also release a card with barely no stock at RRP in the UK,not available for weeks from multiple retailers,and then the price essentially rises to match that of the overpriced competitor card which launched 5 months later. Then when more stock lands remove all the game bundles which made it OK value in the first place.

Also BOTH renaming lower end cards as higher end ones,meaning mainstream cards which most people buy(just look at Steam) have terribad performance.

The worst thing about this is the PS5 PRO looks like it will be RTX4070/RX7800XT performance,so this level of performance should be in £400 class cards now,not in 12 months time. It is quite clear MS is going to bypass a refresh and push for the XBox Series X replacement to arrive earlier.

There is no competition now - just a cabal with a Gentleman's agreement. Now PCMR is dependent consoles to force these companies to produce decent value products. Its no coincidence the RTX3000/RX6000 series 2020 line-ups(which were decent value and a decent generational uplift for all the products),happened at the same time the consoles were released. It was the 2021 releases which were terrible value as their greed took over.

I have to say the consoles are becoming more appealing. My current set up will last me a good while but it may be my last if things continue. Of course if I don't need a GPU I won't be needing a CPU or any of the rest of the hardware...

CAT-THE-FIFTH · 2 Oct 2023 at 11:32

Troezar said:
I have to say the consoles are becoming more appealing. My current set up will last me a good while but it may be my last if things continue. Of course if I don't need a GPU I won't be needing a CPU or any of the rest of the hardware...

Its also not helped motherboard prices have gone up. I was looking at a replacement AM5 mini-ITX motherboard and the cheapest B650 with PCI-E 5.0 is nearly £300. Even the cheapest B650 mini-ITX motherboard which is all PCI-E 4.0 is well over £200,and the Intel motherboards are actually cheaper.

This generation should have had fantastic mainstream cards. The RTX4070 is really an RTX3060TI replacement at best,and the RX7800XT an RX6700XT replacement. If these had been £400 at most,and the RTX4070TI and RX7900XT(which should be the RTX4070 and RX7800XT at best) were under £600,you would have nearly 50% improvements over the prior generation cards.

Instead the most popular cards are going to be the RTX4060/RTX4060TI which are barely better(or worse) than cards launched in 2020/2021. When devs have to work with that,and the current consoles its going to be very limiting for 99% of games released out there,in what they can do.

Dave2150 · 2 Oct 2023 at 11:46

Troezar said:
Wake me up when they actually have some games worth paying to play. Maybe I'm just getting old but shiny visuals seem the priority over fun gameplay. I think the devs need to start working on novel and imaginative gameplay, at that point you don't notice whether the graphics are lifelike or not. I blame the corporate takeover, everything is a low risk rehash of previous IP.

Lots of great games out there to play. I've had loads of fun over the last few months with Elden Ring, Cyberpunk, Plague Tale Requiem, Diablo4 (Story), RE4 remake, Metro Exodus.

Many more on my list of games to play.

Dicehunter · 2 Oct 2023 at 12:06

Troezar said:
I have to say the consoles are becoming more appealing. My current set up will last me a good while but it may be my last if things continue. Of course if I don't need a GPU I won't be needing a CPU or any of the rest of the hardware...

A lot of the people in my real life social circle have given up on PC's over the last few years due to increasing prices and instead bought consoles.

I can eventually see AMD, Intel and Nvidia pricing most people out of the PC market as their focus goes solely over to AI, The time of £1000 xx70 class cards is drawing ever closer.

Purgatory · 2 Oct 2023 at 12:25

Dicehunter said:
A lot of the people in my real life social circle have given up on PC's over the last few years due to increasing prices and instead bought consoles.

I can eventually see AMD, Intel and Nvidia pricing most people out of the PC market as their focus goes solely over to AI, The time of £1000 xx70 class cards is drawing ever closer.

Lets be honest the xx70 £1000 card is already here, they tried to sell it as a 4080 12GB and well we saw what happened.

As can be seen here :- https://www.overclockers.co.uk/pc-c...ds/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4070-ti?sort=price_desc

Ayahuasca · 2 Oct 2023 at 12:30

This sums up the issue with pricing and that's on xx80 series cards which are still out of reach for most of the market even when priced well.

The GTX 280 was also released in the run up to the 2008 financial crash.

Dicehunter · 2 Oct 2023 at 12:36

Ayahuasca said:
This sums up the issue with pricing and that's on xx80 series cards which are still out of reach for most of the market even when priced well.

The people who decide on these prices do not live like the 99.99% of the population, To them £1000 for a card isn't pennies, It's even smaller than pennies.

To the likes of Dr Su, Huang and Gelsinger, £1000 is a few bottles of champagne per night.

darkblade · 2 Oct 2023 at 12:43

Pooh said:
If the rumours are to be believed then the 5090 is supposed to be in the region of 70% faster than the 4090 which is already crazy fast.

OK if you're doing CUDA heavy tasks but in reality how many on this forum have that workflow.

For gaming / casual use, are you really going to see a marked improvement in you experience without also upgrading your entire PC eco-system

Yes, because it will make the 4090 cheaper

Purgatory · 2 Oct 2023 at 12:51

Pooh said:
If the rumours are to be believed then the 5090 is supposed to be in the region of 70% faster than the 4090 which is already crazy fast.

OK if you're doing CUDA heavy tasks but in reality how many on this forum have that workflow.

For gaming / casual use, are you really going to see a marked improvement in you experience without also upgrading your entire PC eco-system

Nvidia has even damaged the xx90 class now with no NVLINK for us CUDA users and heavy workflows that require a lot of VRAM and cores.. No NVLINK means no xx90's for me again and either back to Titans if they release them and have NVLINK or the A-series (Quadros with new name)...

Me.. < click

Priapus · 2 Oct 2023 at 12:56

rare said:
Yes otherwise we get lazy Nvidia. No one wants lazy Nvidia.

The 4060Ti is bad enough.

Look back at the 8800 GTX, amazing card but there was no real competition, so they released it again as the 9800 GTX with a die shrink, then again as the GTS 250…

I had one back in the day; amazing card that did its job well.

Troezar · 2 Oct 2023 at 13:45

Dicehunter said:
A lot of the people in my real life social circle have given up on PC's over the last few years due to increasing prices and instead bought consoles.

I can eventually see AMD, Intel and Nvidia pricing most people out of the PC market as their focus goes solely over to AI, The time of £1000 xx70 class cards is drawing ever closer.

I've said it before but I think PC gaming is returning to the later 90's early noughties. Expensive and niche. Whilst not ideal I think it might clean up the community, that said, some of those annoying kids are now adults and can afford the gear too :cry:

Dicehunter · 2 Oct 2023 at 14:34

Troezar said:
I've said it before but I think PC gaming is returning to the later 90's early noughties. Expensive and niche. Whilst not ideal I think it might clean up the community, that said, some of those annoying kids are now adults and can afford the gear too

As much as I love PC gaming, Been doing it now consistently since around 2003, It's gotten to a point that the price far outweighs the worth. Even those annoying kids who are now adults are starting to bow out.

Apex · 2 Oct 2023 at 15:07

Dicehunter said:
As much as I love PC gaming, Been doing it now consistently since around 2003, It's gotten to a point that the price far outweighs the worth. Even those annoying kids who are now adults are starting to bow out.

I'm definitely going to stretch AM4 out for as long as is possible. I would normally have just gone onto AM5 last year, but I looked at the prices and decided I'd rather spend £250 and upgrade AM4 rather than around £750 on AM5, for no real initial gaming benefits.

Now if the price to uprade to AM5 would have been £450-500, I might have done that instead. But 3 times the prices of staying on perfectly good platform?

Computer said no.

Nasher · 2 Oct 2023 at 15:18

As we can see from the recent Steam stats, market share is dominated by mid range cards (**60 cards etc). Top end GPUs are tiny percentages.

Prices have gone up loads, but almost everyone is still only spending around £3-400 on GPUs.

And people wonder why games are still coming out with graphics which have barely improved in 10 years. Well... that's all most people are going for...

Apex · 3 Oct 2023 at 12:29

Nasher said:
As we can see from the recent Steam stats, market share is dominated by mid range cards (**60 cards etc). Top end GPUs are tiny percentages.

Prices have gone up loads, but almost everyone is still only spending around £3-400 on GPUs.

And people wonder why games are still coming out with graphics which have barely improved in 10 years. Well... that's all most people are going for...

I watched a good video on graphics v art style last night, I don't think higher fidelity is neccasarily the answer, Bioshock is nearly 20 years old, yet it is still a visual delight and graphical classic because of a fantastic art style implemnted by people with a cinematic eye.

A lot of modern games are just an ill-thought out mess graphically.