Poll: Do you think AMD will be able to compete with Nvidia again during the next few years?

[jigger]

Delete.

 

[Freddie1980]

AMD really needs to decide what it wants it's GPU's to be, HPC monsters or gaming focused. At the moment the designs are HPC focused but is Vega making any inroads in the HPC market or is it all Nvidia?

 

[Armageus]

Interesting question - Poll Added

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Some good discussion here - keep it going everyone!

Interesting question - Poll Added

It was thinking of asking to add one,but you read my mind.Thanks!

 

[Panos]

OFC,I am talking more about PC gaming.

Nvidia ATM,seems to forging forward. Volta is out,and we are now starting to see Turing/Ampere prototypes. AMD,OTH still is finding it hard to match Nvidia on performance/watt in many segments,meaning they are loosing out on laptops with regards to dGPU,Vega got delayed,and if it were not for mining,would have been uneconomic to sell at RRP,against cheaper to make Nvidia cards.

Rumours say Raja Koduri wasn't given as much funds as he wanted to make more gaming specific GPUs,as R and D was pushed towards non-gaming segments.

It seems we won't see a new gaming GPU this year from AMD meaning Nvidia will probably push ahead again. Navi apparently is only a midrange chip for release in 2019,which could only mean a high end chip in 2020. Intel also is entering the market in 2020,meaning more compeitition.

So,what do you guys/gal think,will this turn out like after Bulldozer was released,and Intel was reining supreme,where competitors will do the minimum to get sales,and prices will start to increase?? Or do you think AMD might be able to pull something out of the bag(like they did with Ryzen)??

At this moment AMD compete on all segments except on halo products like the Titan and the Ti. Anything bellow they have pretty good products to compete against, many times favourably on the segment.
I do not get how you perceive they do not compete atm. Sure they do not have £3000 graphic card halo like the TitanV.

We haven't see anything from NV yet, so don't speculate where things going. NV could do easily what Intel did and give you small increment performance.
After all any upcoming GPUs by NV are on same 12nm process, so don't hold breath that you will see something great. There is a big perf gap between GTX1080 and GTX1080Ti.
I bet the upcoming xx80 will be in between that gap, with the next xx80Ti above it the GTX1080Ti. That could easily lift 1060 & 1070 one tier up and don't cost to NV a lot of money, while keeping the pricing as is today.
If Nvidia comes with a GPU xx80 at greater performance than the GTX1080Ti, expect to pay £1000 for it as things stand at this moment.


As for AMD, we know they will beat NVidia to 7nm and we wont see from the latter any 7nm consumer products until 2020.
Also with AMD at 7nm we do not know where the multi-GPU thing goes. Already there is a monster Vega64X2 single card out there and nobody knows how it works, as is an Instinct card.
They could easily pulling off the same trick with Ryzen, and HBM allows to do that easily.

 

[jigger]

Right now the gamers have to buy between mining booms, sadly though I think every new graphics card release could very well start a boom and causes a crash when used cards hit eBay.

It will be interesting to see how a flood of used cards impacts the new card market.

 

[Panos]

Yes. I could have made a fortune on Vega cards at one point. That is an unsustainable market and very different to what we have seen in the graphics card market.

Vega 56 was commanding price over £1100 at one point. More valuable than any Titan or Vega 64 card that offer faster gaming performance.

However that wasn't AMD pricing. Was down to shops raising the price because there was a huge demand for mining utilising the HBM2 ram performance.
That also moved a lot of people to buy the cheaper alternative on "ram mining" the GT1030 with the GDDR5 ram. (not the one with the DDR4). GTX1070 & 1080 made no sense over it for pure profit on that type of mining.

 

[jigger]

However that wasn't AMD pricing. Was down to shops raising the price because there was a huge demand for mining utilising the HBM2 ram performance.
That also moved a lot of people to buy the cheaper alternative on "ram mining" the GT1030 with the GDDR5 ram. (not the one with the DDR4). GTX1070 & 1080 made no sense over it for pure profit on that type of mining.

Yes. People have been buying cards by the wagon load and It's impacted the professional market pretty badly. I know of one person that had/has 600amps of mining rigs. That's a lot of graphics cards.

Yes AMD will be competitive even if they don't entre the uber high graphics card market becuase the futre of the market is in APU's.

 

[Panos]

Yes. People have been buying cards by the wagon load and It's impacted the professional market pretty badly. I know of one person that had/has 600amps of mining rigs. That's a lot of graphics cards.

Yes AMD will be competitive even if they don't entre the uber high graphics card market becuase the futre of the market is in APU's.

If you read this week news they are planning for an interposer solution to wire up on the same chip GPU with HBM ram, CPU and chipset.

Moving down to 7nv process a chip the size of a Threadripper could hold a Ryzen 7, a Vega 64 and the chipset. I would love to see something like that in mITX and without pci-e slot it should fit nicely.

 

[jigger]

I bloody hope they come back and become competitive in all ranges again because if they don't then we are all screwed. Nvidia's prices are already a joke so I dread to think what will happen if they are the only choice. I can't see Intel hitting the ground running and being competitive straight away and aren't their drivers poor anyway?

For me it's a question of was Intel looking for people that can whip a pile of junk into shape.
I suppose it depends what hardware Intel had set in stone before they went head hunting graphics talent.

One thing that is interesting about Intel is it was very responsive to Mantle and DX12, and supports Freesync. They will also hold as much influence with Microsoft as AMD when it comes to deciding on the direction of directory X.

 

[JediFragger]

Low/Mid-end then Navi onwards yes, but High end is going to take a while (which is smart to concentrate on, low/mid is where the volume is).

 

[Panos]

I bloody hope they come back and become competitive in all ranges again because if they don't then we are all screwed. Nvidia's prices are already a joke so I dread to think what will happen if they are the only choice. I can't see Intel hitting the ground running and being competitive straight away and aren't their drivers poor anyway?

But your only sole purpose for you wanting AMD to have a competitive GPU is to lower the prices so you can buy Nvidia.
Until YOU buy AMD GPUs that wont happen.

 

[jigger]

If you read this week news they are planning for an interposer solution to wire up on the same chip GPU with HBM ram, CPU and chipset.

Moving down to 7nv process a chip the size of a Threadripper could hold a Ryzen 7, a Vega 64 and the chipset. I would love to see something like that in mITX and without pci-e slot it should fit nicely.

Unlocked Ryzen versions of the APU in the Xbox one X would be fantastic. The motherboard wouldnt need to be much more than a PCB for USB, SATA and DDR connections.

 

[B1gbeard]

But your only sole purpose for you wanting AMD to have a competitive GPU is to lower the prices so you can buy Nvidia.
Until YOU buy AMD GPUs that wont happen.

But that's on AMD. When Vega came it was hot, in short supply and very expensive. You can't expect people to just buy it because. Get a product out where people go wow and they'll buy it.

 

[KillBoY_UK]

No not until after Navi and GCN is dumped

 

[d_brennen]

7nm Navi for consumers will be like the RX480/70 and 580/70. Solid high-mid end products that will sell by the bucket. I don't think they will be competing on proper high end consumer graphics for some time to come...

Navi in datacenter will be lolsome expensive but very competitive where GPGPU compute/VDI acceleration is required

All my opinion from reading the tea leaves

 

[Gerard]

With the success of ryzen i've no doubt they will be competitive again. Just takes 1 slip up from nvidia like what happened with fermi for amd to get some traction. Hopefully the gpu r&d budget can be increased and some more compelling products can be in the offering.

 

[jigger]

Vega will be competitive until Nvidia drop prices or release new cards. If AMD release a 7nm version of Vega I'm pretty sure that would have the potential to hold the top spot.

 

[Gregster]

I bloody hope so. Vega, whilst ok, it doesn't really deliver so late into the party. I really would love to see AMD and NVidia (and Intel) going head to head.

 

[EsaT]

Getting top end "halo product" part is certainly going to be tough call for long time.
But besides that it should be just question of does it take year, two or three.

With AMD's resources having been spare for most of the decade getting CPU business back on correct path was clearly main priority, minimizing extra resources available for GPU R&D.
Now if they started putting more effort to GPUs when Zen"1" was becoming finalized then something could come sooner.
With Ryzen increasing cash income year ago at least that should have started increase in resources for turning ideas/paper plans to something concretic.
And with vastly growing markets in AI/HPC, AMD certainly can't afford to think ,that only CPUs are enough for long term success.
That's where Nvidia has likely been pouring in tons of R&D during this stagnation of gaming GPUs.

Though big question mark is, if AMD has been developing MCM/multiple smaller chips type solutions behind closed doors.
While certainly not perfect, Zen's ability to offer high core counts easily has seriously rattled Intel's strategy.

Maybe although I take what you say with lots of salt. According to steam the GTX750Ti is one of the cards responsible for the boom in China and even that was very likely a result of GPU mining farms upgrading.

Asia and especially China is indeed rising market, but those huge masses there are after affordable products.
Though also here in west big masses buy lots of supermarket PCs, which often don't have very high end hardware...
Or those special products like average/low end GPU with lots of slow memory for big marketing number.