Poll: Do you think AMD will be able to compete with Nvidia again during the next few years?

[tommybhoy]

Course they can catch up if they choose it's commercially viable to sell a range of gpu's with a minuscule target market, Nv came back from the brink to where they are so other companies can too.

Which has gone on to become vulkan which is supported by all the major industry players.

Just like AMD stated that would happen very early on in it's life cycle.

Nvidia Gsync on laptops is a failed attempt to screw over customers through marketing, because it doesn't actually work properly without FPS cap on the drivers.
(I have a Predator 15 do go down that route to argue because I can write an essay about the failures on that system).

ROG laptop here with G-Sync working properly, maybe your games aren't supported.

 

[Panos]

ROG laptop here with G-Sync working properly, maybe your games aren't supported.

When the monitor is just 60hz and the card it dishing 120 you cannot have the gsync working there when it has range 48-60.
And vsync adds input lag on all my shooter games (WOT, PUBG).
The only game that works well is WOWarships because you can go to the settings and cap the FPS to 59.

Is the lack of FPS cap option in the NVidia drivers that screws up the whole thing.

 

[tommybhoy]

There has been a cap for a while now on NV gaming laptops-it's called 'Whisper Mode' and you cap it to the fps you want, don't know what is supported but Pascal is.

 

[4K8KW10]

I can't believe 2018 will be a year without a single new consumer graphics card - and to make matters worse is that right now is the time when we need faster 3840x2160 performance, RX 580 is 2016 year, GTX 1080 too!

 

[Satchfanuk]

I can't believe 2018 will be a year without a single new consumer graphics card - and to make matters worse is that right now is the time when we need faster 3840x2160 performance, RX 580 is 2016 year, GTX 1080 too!

16/12nm has seemingly been a short-lived manufacturing process and has presented AMD with a few problems which made their execution look woefully amateur, plus the hype that built up during the wait for Vega didn't help them in the slightest.
And let's not even talk about HBM. I think that was a big mistake for them to push that memory tech in the gamers market.

Now that they're making the jump to 7nm, lets hope they can actually get the delivery of these new GPUs right, be they Vega/Navi or whatever.
Another botched release like Vega will undermine the performance of the card and leave everyone with a nasty taste in their mouths again.
Even if the next cards only reach 1080ti levels, slick execution and good pricing will sell them regardless, giving them a bit of breathing room to work back up to competing on a level footing.

My hope is that two generations will see AMD close the gap to Nvidia and give them a more competitive product stack to claw back some market share.

We have to bear in mind that AMD will also be producing semi-custom for Sony and MS which may pull resources from RTG to meet any targets the console market demands in the next couple of years.
Hopefully AMD have enough cash to increase their engineering team to cope with multiple projects running concurrently, or else they will be back to muddling through with whatever they've got.

 

[Mauller]

although not consumer, Vega 20 should be interesting, especially if it has NGG and automatic primitive shaders running.

 

[bigmike20vt]

I can't believe 2018 will be a year without a single new consumer graphics card - and to make matters worse is that right now is the time when we need faster 3840x2160 performance, RX 580 is 2016 year, GTX 1080 too!

gtx 1180 will launch in 2018... surely we are all confident on that .. imo these rumours cant go on for ever without any substance.

if for no other reason that people are starting to wait now. sooner or later NV will have to launch or just not sell much imo.
they are not making 10x chips any more, and unless they have fired a bunch of staff they have people with wages to pay... they must be doing something!

My hope is building up a nice stock pile so when it does launch there will be plenty to go around (that said i still dont want a blower card)

 

[Panos]

Again talking about competition,
https://www.computerbase.de/2018-07/wochenrueckblick-nvidia-probleme-directx-12-hdr/

The World of Warcraft DirectX 12 benchmarks, in which graphics cards from AMD, Nvidia and also an iGPU have to prove how they deal with the low-level API, make it to the first place of the tests . While AMD's graphics cards benefit from DirectX 12, especially on weaker processors, the result for Nvidia is again desolate. Some 20 percent slower World of Warcraft with DirectX 12 compared to DirectX 11. Blizzard has therefore decided to continue to use DirectX 11 on Nvidia graphics cards, while automatically switching to DirectX 12 on AMD graphics cards ,

 

[Muhammad.Abdelhameed]

Again talking about competition,
https://www.computerbase.de/2018-07/wochenrueckblick-nvidia-probleme-directx-12-hdr/

You also forgot to mention that NVIDIA's DX11 is 25% faster than AMD's DX12. So ..

 

[Panos]

You also forgot to mention that NVIDIA's DX11 is 25% faster than AMD's DX12. So ..

You do know the context of DX12 and WoW? Blizzard was pushing DX12 as the only API for the game removing support for DX11 as did for DX9.
However now they backtrack this because of the sheer performance drop of the Nvidia cards. Has nothing to do which is faster.

Also I posted the news article not the benchmark. Here are the numbers.

And that is SDR. On HDR the drop is even bigger at WoW.

How much look at the generic perf of HDR. Around 10-15% at best.
https://www.computerbase.de/2018-07/hdr-benchmarks-amd-radeon-nvidia-geforce/2/


So you find perfectly acceptable such drop of FPS in DX12? We are not talking which card is faster but the sheer drop of performance.

Personally as previous owner of GTX1080 & 1080Ti no, is just plain shambles.

Also if you look at behind who has more FPS, they still go ahead pushing AMD cards to DX12.
While will make the game work better on lesser powerful CPUs than the ones needed for the Nvidia cards. Which was the main reason Blizzard was pushing DX12.

Also have a look here just a humble i5 8400 tested his GTX1080 at 1080p.

And here where the user is not using the benchmark but plays the actual game with Vega 64 in 4K resolution.

DX11

DX12

Perf gain on those with low powered CPUs is 100% on AMD with DX12.
That is why Blizzard was pushing DX12 but they will only do so for AMD cards.

 

[Muhammad.Abdelhameed]

You do know the context of DX12 and WoW? Blizzard was pushing DX12 as the only API for the game removing support for DX11 as did for DX9.

I don't believe they were, DX12 is Windows 10 exclusive, it would exclude large portion of players who are still on Windows 7 and Windows 8. Blizzard would never do that, no company does. No game has DX12 only requirements outside of some XboX exclusives. And they are only DX12 because Microsoft wants to use them as a reason for people to upgrade to Windows 10. They are mostly Forza, Gears and Halo games. So a handful of games at best, other exbox exclusives such as State of Decay 2, Sea of Thieves, Recore, and Killer Instinct were all DX11 only. They never even bothered with DX12, it's probably because it's not worth it.

And that is SDR. On HDR the drop is even bigger at WoW.

WOW doesn't support HDR.

So you find perfectly acceptable such drop of FPS in DX12? We are not talking which card is faster but the sheer drop of performance.

Blizzard said DX12 has not been made for NVIDIA GPUs just yet, they will update the game later to account for that.

 

[Panos]

I don't believe they were, DX12 is Windows 10 exclusive, it would exclude large portion of players who are still on Windows 7 and Windows 8. Blizzard would never do that, no company does. No game has DX12 only requirements outside of some XboX exclusives. And they are only DX12 because Microsoft wants to use them as a reason for people to upgrade to Windows 10. They are mostly Forza, Gears and Halo games. So a handful of games at best, other titles such as State of Decay 2, Sea of Thieves, Recore, and Killer Instinct were all DX11 only.


WOW doesn't support HDR.

Blizzard said DX12 has not been made for NVIDIA GPUs just yet, they will update the game later to account for that.

I have updated my post. See the videos.

 

[Muhammad.Abdelhameed]

I have updated my post. See the videos.

Your updated videos doesn't change the argument much, WOW still doesn't support HDR, and will never be DX12 exclusive for the reasons I listed above.

Also the videos you posted doesn't give aggregate avg fps, and doesn't take into account NVIDIA having way higher fps in DX11, even with a low end CPU. I need to see NVIDIA comparisons with DX11 in the same area before we judge.

 

[Panos]

Your updated videos doesn't change the argument much, WOW still doesn't support HDR, and will never be DX12 exclusive for the reasons I listed above.

Also the videos you posted doesn't give aggregate avg fps, and doesn't take into account NVIDIA having way higher fps in DX11, even with a low end CPU. I need to see NVIDIA comparisons with DX11 in the same area before we judge.

Is not new for Blizzard cutting off support of old tech forcing everyone to upgrade. And was planning to push DX12 to all and then switch off DX11 later.
Look at their abolition of DX9 moving to DX11. Everyone with XP & Vista couldn't run the game after the patch.
Same applied to those with W7/W10 but they didn't had DX11 card, they couldn't run the game. (check their forums they were many posts like these).

Dude it has nothing to do who has more fps. It has to do that Nvidia performance drop forces Blizzard to keep maintaining DX11 for Nvidia cards only, while it pushed by default DX12 on all AMD owners. Because there is no perf drop, and they will greatly benefit those with weaker CPUs.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Is not new for Blizzard cutting off support of old tech forcing everyone to upgrade. And was planning to push DX12 to all and then switch off DX11 later.
Look at their abolition of DX9 moving to DX11. Everyone with XP & Vista couldn't run the game after the patch.
Same applied to those with W7/W10 but they didn't had DX11 card, they couldn't run the game. (check their forums they were many posts like these).

Dude it has nothing to do who has more fps. It has to do that Nvidia performance drop forces Blizzard to keep maintaining DX11 for Nvidia cards only, while it pushed by default DX12 on all AMD owners. Because there is no perf drop, and they will greatly benefit those with weaker CPUs.

I superimposed some of the graphs from the computerbase.de report earlier:

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/31973272/

Its really interesting how flat the variation in frametimes are in DX12 compared to DX11 on both AMD and Nvidia.

Its going to be interesting when Volta/Ampere is out.

 

[Satchfanuk]

I superimposed some of the graphs from the computerbase.de report earlier:

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/31973272/

Its really interesting how flat the variation in frametimes are in DX12 compared to DX11 on both AMD and Nvidia.

Its going to be interesting when Volta/Ampere is out.

Interesting unless Nvidia still suck at DX12

 

[Panos]

I superimposed some of the graphs from the computerbase.de report earlier:

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/posts/31973272/

Its really interesting how flat the variation in frametimes are in DX12 compared to DX11 on both AMD and Nvidia.

Its going to be interesting when Volta/Ampere is out.

Only if is Volta derivative with it's full hardware async compute there are going to be benefits for DX12 in the next round of Nvidia cards.
Otherwise any derivative of the Maxwel/Pascal line is still a DX11 card in effect and they will get performance hits.

Have a look here what I am talking about

https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/03/26/nvidia_voltas_titan_v_dx12_performance_efficiency/5

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Interesting unless Nvidia still suck at DX12

Only if is Volta derivative with it's full hardware async compute there are going to be benefits for DX12 in the next round of Nvidia cards.
Otherwise any derivative of the Maxwel/Pascal line is still a DX11 card in effect and they will get performance hits.

Have a look here what I am talking about

https://www.hardocp.com/article/2018/03/26/nvidia_voltas_titan_v_dx12_performance_efficiency/5

Well I am making the assumption that Ampere is a derivative of Volta - well I hope it is!!

 

[Panos]

Well I am making the assumption that Ampere is a derivative of Volta - well I hope it is!!

According to rumours is just a re-spin of Pascal. Indeed we shall see.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

According to rumours is just a re-spin of Pascal. Indeed we shall see.

The advantage to using the newer APIs is potentially the more efficient usage of CPUs,and both Intel and AMD are finding it harder and harder to increase single core performance,and are tacking on more and more cores.