Do you think Islam is British?

Nitefly · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:28

cleanbluesky said:
Religion can be personal

So Muslims can drink after all?

Surfer · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:29

Originally Posted by Gilly
No.

Islam is not western. It has no roots here and, pardon me for saying, has no place here.

Monkey Puzzle · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:29

Belonging to a religion or taking an identity is not pivotal on whether you attend a designated building frequently.

Religion can be personal, and can easily affect a person in many profound ways without them having set foot in a place of worship

Yes, just a shame that religious texts have to have passages about battling non-believers, and so can be interpreted in such extremist ways.

JimmyEatWorms · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:30

Christianity has been here for over 1000 years and has become very British and is enshrined into our law and many aspects of our life (rightly or wrongly).

Christianity hasn't become British....Britain has become Christian.

platypus · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:31

DAVEM said:
You're posts make little sense IMO. WHY would Britian even want to be Islamic?! Why would people where choose it? This isn't Cybernations Gordon Brown doesn't just "click" Islam and we all follow, we're steped in Christian tradition and what will never change IMO.

You obviously haven't read any of my posts. Like I said, before Christianity came along there were - shock horror - other religions, other systems of living. The majority of people didn't want to be Christian! If you can't see the obvious parallels, then I'm not sure how anyone can point it out to you.

Gilly · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:31

Surfer said:
i edited my post sorry wasnt you was the other dude.

You weren't talking to me the 2nd time either

You a bit mixed up?

Surfer said:
Yes of course there was other religions before it but in no way organised in comparison.

So?

Surfer said:
I somehow doubt Islam will be the one to replace it......... and have yet to hear any evidence (or actual argument really) from any of the people in this thread saying it will.

I've not seen any argument saying that either. So why are you arguing against it?

Azagoth · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:31

No, it's not British at all. We came out of the Dark Ages quite a while ago, those animals are still living in it and trying to get the entire World to live in it too.

DAVEM · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:33

platypus said:
You obviously haven't read any of my posts. Like I said, before Christianity came along there were - shock horror - other religions, other systems of living. The majority of people didn't want to be Christian! If you can't see the obvious parallels, then I'm not sure how anyone can point it out to you.

I HAVE read you're posts and you MAKE NO SENSE. Before Christianity WE didn't make the choice of what religon we followed NOW we do. This country will NEVER be anything but CHRISTIAN, any arguement against that is just ridiculous!

Davem

platypus · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:33

Surfer said:
and yet you provide no substantiating evidence . So your not doing a very good job at TRYING......

You just speculate that it could be the next natural religion of this country.

Of course I'm speculating. I've said it has the potential too, and people should realise that.

I don't think it will become the next natural religion.

Monkey Puzzle · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:34

You obviously haven't read any of my posts. Like I said, before Christianity came along there were - shock horror - other religions, other systems of living. The majority of people didn't want to be Christian! If you can't see the obvious parallels, then I'm not sure how anyone can point it out to you.

Yes, but can you not see that Christian values are entrenched in our way f life, laws and so on? Besides, that wasn't the point - the original point was whether Islam was British, not whether it would supercede the current largely Christian culture in this country.

platypus · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:35

DAVEM said:
I HAVE read you're posts and you MAKE NO SENSE. Before Christianity WE didn't make the choice of what religon we followed NOW we do. This country will NEVER be anything but CHRISTIAN, any arguement against that is just ridiculous!

Davem

And whats the difference between that and an army of Islam taking over the country through various terrorist methods?

Monkey Puzzle · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:36

And whats the difference between that and an army of Islam taking over the country through various terrorist methods?

We have a standing army and they have flour and petrol?

Sleepy · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:36

DAVEM said:
Practising or not the majourity of the country say their religon is Christian, simple as that. It's more of a culture than anything else, a mind set. Imagine "sorry guy's we've gone islamic now, no more christmas holidays, sorry!" like that would EVER happen.

Except as I've allready said, xianity has not left that big an imprint on our society. Freedom, democracy, individual rights, consumerism, diversity, science, equal rights, education for all, justice for all these are not xian values. They are western values that arose inspite of the church.

Not even our holidays - supposedly xian in origin are xian, simply rebranded pagen holidays.

To argue that by ticking a box on the census defines a persons religion is simply foolish. A persons beliefs are better expressed by their actions in RL than ticking an inconsequential box on a governement form.

DAVEM · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:37

platypus said:
And whats the difference between that and an army of Islam taking over the country through various terrorist methods?

HA HA HA HA, idiots trying to blow us up is likely to DO THE OPPOSITE of making us non christians!

Surfer · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:37

Gilly said:
You weren't talking to me the 2nd time either You a bit mixed up?

So?

I've not seen any argument saying that either. So why are you arguing against it?

edited again! Sorry in a rush.

Ive not even started arguing yet mate.

But i might have time at work to argue.

For me arguing about something involves putting forward a rational viewpoint substantiated by lots of evidence. Thats what i was bemoaning the lack of by some folk.

Gilly · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:38

DAVEM said:
I HAVE read you're posts and you MAKE NO SENSE. Before Christianity WE didn't make the choice of what religon we followed NOW we do. This country will NEVER be anything but CHRISTIAN, any arguement against that is just ridiculous!

Why?

Monkey Puzzle · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:40

Good post sleepy, but I think there's probably quite a strong case for arguing that equality and equal rights have a fairly strong basis in the Bible

DAVEM · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:40

Sleepy said:
Except as I've allready said, xianity has not left that big an imprint on our society. Freedom, democracy, individual rights, consumerism, diversity, science, equal rights, education for all, justice for all these are not xian values. They are western values that arose inspite of the church.

Not even our holidays - supposedly xian in origin are xian, simply rebranded pagen holidays.

To argue that by ticking a box on the census defiens a persons religion is simply foolish. A persons beliefs are better expressed by thier actions in RL than ticking an inconsequential box on a governement form.

I disagree but I see you're point. Politics and religon are now almost completely independant (an excellent thing of course). And hence comparisons with past events is not possible.

Our values, like you say, have arisen inspite of the church, but the fact so many of us consider ourselves christian, even if we are not practising, means that Britian is a Christian country. There is no better indiciator than the statistics in this case.

Davem

Sleepy · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:40

cleanbluesky said:
Belonging to a religion or taking an identity is not pivotal on whether you attend a designated building frequently.

Religion can be personal, and can easily affect a person in many profound ways without them having set foot in a place of worship

But if the religion calls for communal acts and especially regular communal acts of worship and other behaviours there coems a point when non compliance with such tenants brings into doubts a persons membership of the mainstream form of that religion. So are you suggesting that 41m british xians aren't CoE etc but actually belong to the Church of can't be assed xianity?

Arcade Fire · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:42

Obviously Islam isn't British; it's a highly successful Arabic (more or less) religion.

I don't agree that "it has no place here" though. I believe that Muslims should be allowed to live in Britain with the same rights as everybody else, provided that they abide by British laws in the same way as the rest of the population. I don't believe that Islam is inherently an evil religion, as some people seem to, nor do I believe that it necessarily engenders fanaticism or terrorism.