Do you think Islam is British?

VIRII · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:42

JimmyEatWorms said:
Christianity hasn't become British....Britain has become Christian.

Quite true, quite true although I don't think you'll find the CoE being mainstream anywhere other than the UK..............

MookJong · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:42

No it is not historically British, but neither are thousands of other things that have been adopted as part of our every day life.

I guess the question your asking is, should Islam have a place being adopted into British society? I would say a Westernised or basic version of it could and can be, but as seen all over the world a fundamentalist version is not compatible.

platypus · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:43

Monkey Puzzle said:
Yes, but can you not see that Christian values are entrenched in our way f life, laws and so on? Besides, that wasn't the point - the original point was whether Islam was British, not whether it would supercede the current largely Christian culture in this country.

Yeah I think it's gotten off topic somewhat. I guess it might help if I clarify my position: I don't think Islam will become the natural religion of this country. But it could.

DAVEM · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:43

Gilly said:
Why?

It's our culture that's why. In order for the majourity of us to change religon there must be a reason for it. There isn't mass upset with Christianity, if there was we'd see people flocking to other religons.

If anything we are more likely to become a country of atheists (sp? lol) that seems to be the general trend, and in fairness having a stronger believe in fundamental science as apposed to any form of higher being.

Davem

platypus · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:43

DAVEM said:
HA HA HA HA, idiots trying to blow us up is likely to DO THE OPPOSITE of making us non christians!

You've got to look at it from the other angle though.

DAVEM said:
It's our culture that's why. In order for the majourity of us to change religon there must be a reason for it. There isn't mass upset with Christianity, if there was we'd see people flocking to other religons.

There may not be mass upset with Christianity, but there sure is mass apathy. People may not be flocking to another recognised religion, but they sure are to TV, the Internet, Chat Rooms, Games etc.

DAVEM said:
If anything we are more likely to become a country of atheists (sp? lol) that seems to be the general trend, and in fairness having a stronger believe in fundamental science as apposed to any form of higher being.

Davem

I agree completely, and think we're well on the way - irreversibly so. There's that culture change you didn't seem to think could happen.

Sleepy · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:44

Bum! pressed quote not edit

Gilly · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:45

DAVEM said:
It's our culture that's why. In order for the majourity of us to change religon there must be a reason for it. There isn't mass upset with Christianity, if there was we'd see people flocking to other religons.

Cultures change.

DAVEM said:
If anything we are more likely to become a country of atheists (sp? lol) that seems to be the general trend, and in fairness having a stronger believe in fundamental science as apposed to any form of higher being.

I agree with you, but thats the first thing you've said in this thread that makes any sense.

DAVEM · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:45

platypus said:
You really have no idea do you.

? you honestly think we're all going to change religon because of terrorist strikes? They have the opposite effects, they bring us together as a community, it makes us MORE allienated to Islam and Muslims in general? Surely you see that? :confused:

cleanbluesky · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:47

Sleepy said:
but if the religion calls for communal acts and especially regular communal acts of worship and other behaviours there coems a point when non compliance with such tenants brings into doubts a persons membership of the mainstream form of that religion. So are you suggesting that 41m british xians aren't CoE etc but actually belong to the Church of can't be assed xianity?

To call it "can't be assed xianity" is dismissive. No church is going to make you be a good person, no vicar is going to force you to understand the principles or give you the capacity to save your soul should you lack it.

Religion is personal, the church is social.
Social groups can help you with your personal religion, but they are not arbitrary.

platypus · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:48

DAVEM said:
? you honestly think we're all going to change religon because of terrorist strikes? They have the opposite effects, they bring us together as a community, it makes us MORE allienated to Islam and Muslims in general? Surely you see that?

Yep, again I agree with you.

But lets look at this in a ludicrously hypothetical situation: Islamists get better organisation and actually get a recognisable army together. Terrorists attacks would be a useful precursor, no?

Edited original bit as it seemed a bit unnecessary and offensive, sorry.

DAVEM · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:50

Gilly said:
Cultures change.

I agree with you, but thats the first thing you've said in this thread that makes any sense.

I agree that Cultures change, but not fundamentally without some kind of government intervention.

It might be due to my upbringing (catholic school etc..) but I just can't see any majour religon change in the his country ever, and if we did change, Islam wouldn't be the religon we choose.

Arcade Fire · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:50

DAVEM said:
If anything we are more likely to become a country of atheists (sp? lol) that seems to be the general trend, and in fairness having a stronger believe in fundamental science as apposed to any form of higher being.

I disagree. A mass cultural adoption of atheism (or, even better, agnosticism) would require a level of rationality and philosophical inquiry which seems to be sadly absent from the general population. People may continue to become more apathetic to religion, but I findit difficult to envision a society who would mostly declare themselves to be atheist or agnostic (with a couple of notable exceptions, of course... Stalinist Russia or the Mongolian empire at its height).

If anything, I'd guess from recent trends that we're likely to drift into a greater dependence on religion, as people adopt it to deal with the constant threats (real or imagined) presented to us daily by our oh-so-reliable media.

brendy · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:50

Might I add that until mr Jesus H. Christ raises his hand and shows himself/herself that its reasonable to assume they dont exist

If he/she does I doubt they have a british passport, unless let in by our couldnt-keep-the-draft-out immigration control.

Jono · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:51

I think that whilst there's still survivers of the Second World War alive then islam won't really gain a foothold, at least by force. Too much fighting spirit is left with the British people for that to happen.

However, once they've all died off we'll just be left with a bunch of apathetic not-my-faults and if islam really does want to take over, it probably will.

But I'll have buggered off by then.

Loki · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:52

Interesting question posed by the OP. Taking the world as it is today then Islam is not traditionally British. Fundamentally the differences between the West and the Middle east are the contributing factors to some of the conflict we see today. Whether they can co-exist is dependant on a willingness from both sides.

I maybe wrong but I see a greater sense of community in the Muslim faiths than we do in the traditional British people. Community was something that used to make Britain great.

Tunney · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:52

Do you guys ever feel like you might be over-obsessed with Muslims/Islam?

dirtydog · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:53

Jono said:
But I'll have buggered off by then.

Where to?

It's quite ironic you criticising Britons for not making a stand against the invasion and then announcing you are emigrating yourself

Arcade Fire · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:53

Jono said:
But I'll have buggered off by then.

You'll be dead too?

dirtydog · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:53

Tunney said:
Do you guys ever feel like you might be over-obsessed with Muslims/Islam?

Actually no.

DAVEM · 10 Jul 2007 at 11:54

platypus said:
Yep, again I agree with you.

But lets look at this in a ludicrously hypothetical situation: Islamists get better organisation and actually get a recognisable army together. Terrorists attacks would be a useful precursor, no?

Edited original bit as it seemed a bit unnecessary and offensive, sorry.

NP feel free to be offensive!

I don't think terrorist strikes are effective to be honest, they hit the media, but the human response is often counter-productive for the group who organised them. IMO as long as the UK and the US are "super" powers then Christianity has nothing to fear.

Of course thats different in theatre, in Iraq per say.