Poll: Does David Moyes need to go? Part 2 - New Poll **Spoilers**

MoyesIN or MoyesOUT?

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The trouble with Moyes is he doesn't know how to organise a team to take the initiative and play attackingly, like Martinez has done with Everton this season.

According to BT Sports United have the best away form in the league this season and yet at home they're down near Hull City, coincidence?

When teams sit back or simply have a good organised defence his tactics are just too one dimensional to trouble them and you get clueless displays like against Fulham (barring some individual brilliance).
 
Fatigue? Apart from the CL haven't we failed spectacularly in all other competitions? I.e been knocked out so early we went on holiday to Dubai to meet mazzadonna? Or was I just imaging all the rest we've had.

Not to mention our players don't really do much at international level, Rooney and RVP excluded?
 
mmj_uk said:
When teams sit back or simply have a good organised defence his tactics are just too one dimensional to trouble them and you get clueless displays like against Fulham (barring some individual brilliance).
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This was (and still is under Martinez if I'm honest) always Everton's main problem. We would play some lovely joined up stuff until the final third of the pitch and then we'd just run out of ideas. Someone like Mata would have made all the difference, yet now Moyes has someone like that he plays them out on the wing.

I just don't get it. :confused:
 
Davey_Pitch said:
If you're suggesting the main reason Everton are 5th is due to other team's failings you're doing Everton and Martinez a disservice. We've got more points at this stage of the season than in any previous Premier League, and we're well on target to break our record points total. That's not down to other teams, that's down to us.
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Not strictly true - just consider the 6 games a season (or however many you have so far played) - potentially upto 18 points difference to start with.


Purdy - you have no evidence where Moyes would be with Everton currently with the players at Martinex's disposal - so your guess is as good as anyone else's, exactly that ...a guess and nothing more.

Everton may well be playing more exciting football and Im happy for them (which is what I said originally) but to really prove anything significant Martinez need to get there and stay there season after season.

FishFluff said:
This was (and still is under Martinez if I'm honest) always Everton's main problem. We would play some lovely joined up stuff until the final third of the pitch and then we'd just run out of ideas. Someone like Mata would have made all the difference, yet now Moyes has someone like that he plays them out on the wing.

I just don't get it. :confused:
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Because with RvP available, Rooney HAS to be deployed (nominally at least) in the No10 position. Its debatable who is the better No 10, but its United and the fans he has to convinve (first at least) and they are always going to say Rooney lol. Without RvP, a team based around Rooney up front with Mata just behind should work brilliantly if the midfield / wingers can be convinced to trust Mata and his close ball control (which hasnt been United's strong point for recent years).

The team of the last four years or so , maybe more , has always gone wide predominantly ignoring the midfield and central channels and relying on crosses or coming in deep around the sides of the boxes - which of course is going to exclude Mata. Once the centre halves (which imo is where everything stems from) and cm is strengthened and the players know they can rely on Mata's skill in these areas, I personally wouldnt be sorry to see the back of RvP (because he is that age, and his injury record has seemingly reverted back to what it was like most of his years at Arsenal)
 
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^ Yeah, it's obvious RVP was 1st choice to start with, he's not anymore, (he's a petulant kid, "the other players are going into my space" lol)

Rooney is gonna play up front, Mata in behind, would like to see Nani out left, buy Baines. Left hand side of the pitch would be sorted then. Nani Cutting inside playing triangles with Rooney and Mata, Baines on the overlap...tasty.

Need a winger for the right, then sort an energetic box to box to link up with Fell and Mata. Evans at CB, buy another CB, De Gea and Raf and Gk and RB respectively. Buy some competition for certain areas. A half decent target man wouldn't go a miss.

Bosh, see how that does for a season. Said it many a time, there's only a certain amount you can do with the players at you're disposal.

Check out the Ruby Walsh/Ferguson convo...explanation right from the horses mouth :p
 
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I still think Rafael needs replacing. He doesn't have the temperament to play in the big games and not lose his head. He also can't play the teams that put meaty challenges in without reacting.
 
He's young though, plenty of time on his side. Granted they could do with a mature RB who's been round the block.
 
I would like to see Rooney play up top though. Him and Sturridge firing can only be good for England. Even if we don't have a Suarez or a Mata.
 
Davey_Pitch said:
The fact Martinez is (so far) doing a bit better with Everton shouldn't suggest that Moyes isn't a good manager.
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I dont think anybody would honestly say that Moyes is a bad manager.
I think he's actually good. Even Very Good.
The problem is Manchester United, as one of the big 4 clubs in the World, need EXCELLENT.

We want to be able to compete against Guardiola, Mourinho, Ancelotti.
Against those managers, Moyes will be found wanting.

Moyes is a manager, when on form, can get his team into the top 4-5. But thats it. Manchester United need someone who can take on and beat Mourinho/Guardiola.

His strategy at Everton was to beat lesser clubs and be difficult to get beat by big clubs. This allowed Everton to get roughly 5th/6th regualarly. Unfortunately, this wont win the league.

As one of the big 4 clubs, Man Utd have the right to DEMAND the best. And Moyes is far from the best, as this year proves.

And with regards to buying players - if we bought Messi and Ronaldo in the Summer, we'd still lose to big clubs.
 
Trusty said:
Rooney is gonna play up front, Mata in behind, would like to see Nani out left, buy Baines. Left hand side of the pitch would be sorted then. Nani Cutting inside playing triangles with Rooney and Mata, Baines on the overlap...tasty.
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I could be wrong (and I'm not going to bother checking), but I think you got very excited when Mata arrived and I think it was you, who used the word "tasty" at the prospect of Mata, RVP, Rooney playing together. The next game we played I think was Fulham (and we all know what happened in that game).

Apologies if I've mistaken you for someone else.

Buying players isnt going to help our situation.
We bought Mata and the Afro man - spending £65M. Has this helped us? Be honest.
 
sunama said:
I could be wrong (and I'm not going to bother checking), but I think you got very excited when Mata arrived and I think it was you, who used the word "tasty" at the prospect of Mata, RVP, Rooney playing together. The next game we played I think was Fulham (and we all know what happened in that game).
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One game together? Really? It takes longer than that to build a coherent relationship on the pitch with your team mates. Go check what i said earlier in the year about RVP. I said his legs were gone. When Mata came in the Jan window though, you don't know what could happen. Gotta try the combo surely..

I did use the word tasty though, you're right there :p

Taste test!!!!

sunama said:
Buying players isnt going to help our situation.
We bought Mata and the Afro man - spending £65M. Has this helped us? Be honest.
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Will do in the years to come. Need more players though to replace some others. Team isn't finished by any stretch of the imagination..
Plenty more spending to come, lucky United. Whilst Leeds rally about trying to pay wages. :rolleyes:
 
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Trusty said:
He's young though, plenty of time on his side. Granted they could do with a mature RB who's been round the block.
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He isnt that inexperienced any more, which counters the youth arguement

IF Raf was going to outgrow his rash side, he would have done it by now imo
 
Yeah true, he's played quite a lot now considering he's 23. But, he still is only 23, it's young. Remember what you were like at 23 in terms of you're conscience. It could take something completely spurious outside of football life to make it all click. Thing is with full backs as well, they got a lot of stick for giving away free kicks in dangerous areas, but that's natural to the area of pitch he plays in, also, his opposing man is going to be skilful wingers, so naturally it looks worse. If a striker or winger gives away fouls, it's not noticed to the same extent. Same for Gk's, if they make a mistake, it's a goal. Everyone remembers it. The free kick he gave at Villa was noticed because they scored from it. It was young's fault though really, gave the ball away with a sloppy pass, Raf was then completely caught out.

Edit. Do you think United will be looking to replace him?
 
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Trusty said:
Rooney is gonna play up front, Mata in behind, would like to see Nani out left, buy Baines. Left hand side of the pitch would be sorted then. Nani Cutting inside playing triangles with Rooney and Mata, Baines on the overlap...tasty.
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Not a chance Man Utd will buy Baines. He's recently signed a new long term contract and his transfer fee would be far in excess of what any team would be willing to pay for a player of his age (29). Baines will stay at Everton, I can assure you of that.
 
Davey_Pitch said:
Not a chance Man Utd will buy Baines. He's recently signed a new long term contract and his transfer fee would be far in excess of what any team would be willing to pay for a player of his age (29). Baines will stay at Everton, I can assure you of that.
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: I dunno, it's still United. If Everton get CL though, then yeah he'll stay. Actually isn't he an Evertonian, or am i imagining that? That'll be in your favour as well if he is
 
Trusty said:
: I dunno, it's still United. If Everton get CL though, then yeah he'll stay. Actually isn't he an Evertonian, or am i imagining that? That'll be in your favour as well if he is
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Yup, he's an Evertonian. Also, during the transfer window there were strong rumours Man Utd were going to put a bid in for him. That's when he signed his new contract. If that's not a statement of intent, from the player and the club, I don't know what is. He wouldn't have signed the contract if he wanted to leave.
 
Trusty said:
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Edit. Do you think United will be looking to replace him?
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Maybe not replace straight away, but certainly the squad could do with a dedicated RB to challange Rafael (rather than Smalling /Jones / Valencia who are ok as fill ins , but in a big game shows what they are lacking)

could well be ....Varela, although he is young some rumours coming out of the club seem to be saying very positive things about him, so possibly bench apps early next season and sub apps.
 
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