does God exist in space?

[Tefal]

If you also go back to hebrew and look at the word used that was translated into day for gensis 1:3 onwards. The hebrew word simply means a passage of time and not a day as in 24hours.

Do you mean more like "era"?

 

[Glaucus]

Possibly, can't remember of the top of my head. But it's along those lines. It's even used later in the bible to mean a week iirc.

 

[RomanNose]

Possibly, can't remember of the top of my head. But it's along those lines. It's even used later in the bible to mean a week iirc.

No matter what Christians stay the proportions will stay the same, you know that if God wanted to make the whole universe in a day he should have made the earth in a fraction of a second.
If you scale that up too months/ years/ whatever it still does not make any sense at all, why did he take so long to create the Earth and managed to create the rest of the universe in the same amount of time?

 

[Glaucus]

What do you mean portiobs? There is no portions infered.

 

[Angilion]

Quick couple of questions and I should mention (although it should be obvious from my questions) I'm not clued up on religion (I find it to be illogical and nonsensical).

1) How old does Christianity/<insert Religion here> reckon the Earth is/how long have humans been around?

It varies from one Christian to another. There isn't an official Christian date. There couldn't be nowadays, as it's been a long time since Christianity had a single governing body or set of beliefs other than the core two (belief in the Abrahamic god and belief in Jesus as messiah and messenger from that god).

Some Christians make up various different numbers and choose to believe them as a matter of faith regardless of any and all evidence to the contrary. The lowest number used is around 6500 years, for both the age of the Earth and how long humans have been around. There's no real reason for that number, but reality has nothing to do with religion. It's not even in their bible. I doubt if any of them even know why they believe it.

Other Christians believe that since there's no date specified for either in Christianity (which is true) they can go with whatever the evidence suggests or simply regard it as unknown. If there is an eternal god, why would the odd million or billion years here or there matter to them?

Surely we have found fossils and stuff from WAY before this? Doesn't this kind of discount the theory? (OMG GOD PLANTED THE FOSSILSLOL)

That is exactly what they believe - God fakes all the evidence to test their faith. Faith in something they made up anyway, that isn't really anything to do with Christianity.

2) If original sin is the cause of all the suffering and general baddyness that humanity experiences then how does God justify punishing BILLIONS of people for what some silly bint did years ago?
Also if God created Man and his Lady then God KNEW that they're/we're prone to stupidity, greed and whatnot, so wtf was he expecting?
"I know... I'll give them free will and then PUNISH THE **** OUT OF THEM SHOULD THEY USE IT! MUAHAHAHAHAHAA"

If so, God's a ****, way worse than that lady who may or may not have screamed paedo at the security guard.

That's about it, yes. The Abrahamic god is, according to the relevant religions, a deranged sociopath with an endless appetite for causing suffering and an absolute requirement for obedience from all of his slaves, i.e. everyone. The foulest insane human dictator who ever lived has nothing on their god.

And they love him for it. Which is deeply warped.

A post on another forum is, I think, a perfect summary. It was about Abraham and Isaac. Isaac was Abraham's beloved son. God commanded Abraham to murder Isaac as a ritual sacrifice at a specific location. Abraham tricked Isaac into going there, overpowered him and tied him to an altar for ritual murder. Just as he's about to murder his son for god, god pops out from hiding and says he doesn't have to do it, it was just a test to see how much Abraham fears him.

You don't get much lower than that, you really don't.

A Christian who replied said, apparently genuinely believing it, that this was a cool and beautiful story of god's mercy. Seriously.

In case anyone thinks I'm making it up, I'll give chapter and verse. The story is in Genesis 22.

Genesis 22: 1-12 KJV (it's a poor translation and interpretation in general, but it's very influential and other versions are the same for this section).

And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.

Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.

And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.

And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.

And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?

And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.

And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.

And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.

And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

If God is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient, how come he has to 'test' anyone's faith? Surely he's so rad that he just knows?

 

[Angilion]

[..] Just because a story is written in the Quran or Bible, IF someone has gone to the extent of accepting it is from God and believing in God, then such stories are not hard to also accept. For someone who does not believe in God, I wouldn't expect them to believe it before first believing in God.

Which proves my point nicely - such stories are a matter of faith. They are not evidence of anything.

There are many scientific statements in the Quran which could not possibly have been known 1400 yrs ago. Have you looked in this or are you another google scholar?

There aren't any such statements.

There are some statements that some people interpret that way because they want to abuse science as a means of promoting their religion, like a virus invading a cell and using the cell to make more of the virus. As I said before, it's parasitical.

Either that or it's a belief that their religion is unable to stand alone and must pretend to be science so that it can use the support that science earns by being dependable.

 

[Angilion]

1) Approximately 6,500 years old. Most people will deny this but carbon dating is very much fallable.

No it isn't. It's also irrelevant, since it isn't used for dating the age of the Earth.

The best argument for the fossils we have is the flood, that would give clear reasoning behind various strata/fossils deposited (one example has several strata layers with a big fat tree going right through it - hmm!)

You are now arguing that your magic flood killed different trees at vastly different times, millenia even by your ridiculous and wholly arbritary dating, and that it still exists today.

Yes, that's right. New polystratic tree fossils are being made right now. It's rare because any fossilisation is rare, but it happens in various places. There's a lot of flooding in the world every year. But not your magic flood of magic water that was made from nothing and had no mass and magically disappeared and magically left untouched those civilisations with writing at the time, who magically never noticed anything unusual happening.

 

[MikeTech]

God created the whole universe and he presents everywhere.

 

[Vonhelmet]

The Bible says nothing about the age of the universe or earth. The overwhelming majority of Christians don't believe the earth is only 6,500 years old. The majority also have no problems with evolution or fossils or any of that shizzle.

Unfortunately, those that do believe those things are tremendously vocal about their scientifically probably wrong beliefs.

And you guys fall for it every time and argue with them, and act as though all Christians believe that sort of nonsense.

 

[Johno please?]

1) Approximately 6,500 years old. Most people will deny this but carbon dating is very much fallable. The best argument for the fossils we have is the flood, that would give clear reasoning behind various strata/fossils deposited (one example has several strata layers with a big fat tree going right through it - hmm!)

Interesting articles on potassium/argon dating methods - I'm no scientist but certainly would make me think twice about hinging my whole belief system on a reportedly inaccurate method of dating.

Well thanks to radioactive clocks and other methods we know the earth to be about 4.6billion years old. (with an error margin of about 1%)

You actually believe in noahs ark?

 

[RobotXander]

It's amazing what some people believe in.
My wifes side of the family are Christians. The most closed minded, ignorant people you could meet. It's pointless trying to have a discussion about things like this.
She doesn't share their views, thank ****

 

[Vonhelmet]

It's amazing what some people believe in.
My wifes side of the family are Christians. The most closed minded, ignorant people you could meet. It's pointless trying to have a discussion about things like this.
She doesn't share their views, thank ****

WOOWOO GENERALISATION!

 

[DisrupTor75]

God created the whole universe and he presents everywhere.

Do you mean he's present everwhere OR that he leaves presents everywhere, because that's Father Christmas's job

 

[Bulldog14]

From a biological standpoint I believe that the emergence of religion and belief in higher powers is inevitable. Any sentient species will question it's own origins. Without understanding of basic scientific principles enquiring minds will fill in the blanks with the mystical. Much the same way as we used to put dragons on the edges of maps. As society progresses and the scientific replaces the mystical, religion will wane, much as it has in the last century. I suspect that as long as we don't destroy ourselves and science continues to progress religion will wane to the point where it is relegated to minor cult status in a few hundred years.

As much as I can respect that another person believes in a higher power I find such people sadly misguided. To have ones mind and existance yoked by superstition is about the worst thing I can think of. In depth understanding of the scientific principles that govern our universe are the true enlightenment.

In the defence of religion however, it provides comfort to the uneducated and poor throughout the world. What use are astrophysics to a simple peasant in India? That persons life will probably be short and hard and if belief in a god makes that hard existance easier then who are we to take that away from that person? It is easy to dispense with religion when we live in societies that no longer need dieties, but it is somewhat unfair to label people as totally crazy who still believe. To me they are just misguided at most.

 

[Participant]

I quite like this quote from my good buddy Epicurus:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

- Epicurus [341–270 B.C.]

 

[Metalface Mark]

There are actually reasonable arguments for the earth being less than ten thousand years old that creationists will use. Enough certainly that creationists can argue the toss with the scientists view.

 

[Vonhelmet]

I quite like this quote from my good buddy Epicurus:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

- Epicurus [341–270 B.C.]

Which totally ignores the fact the Bible says God will deal with evil in his own time.

 

[Bulldog14]

When I wake up and have a Nazi day, I also think that the notion of God is a product of utter blind human arrogance. People can not accept that at death existance ends, and make up fairy tales of happy (or bad) places they will end up for the rest of eternity.

The reality however is pretty much exactly as the Matrix describes it. We are simply a battery. Nothing more nothing less. The chemical reaction which sustains us has a shelf life of about 70 odd years, and when it is over it is over. There is no heaven, no hell, no reincarnation, no previous lives, no nothing. We exist, we are sentient, we question that existance, those who are fortunate enough to be able to grasp science will live enlightened lives. Those who don't will be constrained by their own superstition (Not that the might not be happy and successful in life otherwise.)

 

[Tombstone]

Which totally ignores the fact the Bible says God will deal with evil in his own time.

See if it was me, I wouldnt accept that excuse. I dont accept it when my prime minister tells me that he will deal with the finances of the country in his own time, nor do I accept it when my mechanic tells me he will deal with my car problem in his own time, so I'm not believing someone else who says they will deal with something in their own time either