Does something need to be done about dogs?

[mid_gen]

I don't care what anyone says, there is no justification for buying such a dog in the first place. The majority of people who bought them, bought them because they look aggressive. That makes them part guilty in my mind. The shame, though, is that (as per usual) the government have been very slow to react. This conversation would not be happening if they banned them before they were imported.

I am tired of the bickering. The "penalty" for owning such a dog is not that great. If I had my way, all dogs about a certain weight would be muzzled when outside. It would not stop all issues, but it would stop many. Dogs have become scary to non-dog-owners, and that's not acceptable.

No penalty will be enough, because until it happens, it can't possibly happen, in the owner's view, so there is no deterrent. I'm quite sure that every owner who has seen their dog maul someone to death is absolutely mortified and probably traumatised by it.

That level of aggression in such a strong animal is worse than a lethal weapon, because they literally have a mind of their own.

I'm a pretty big strong guy, and I feel pretty confident I could deal with an average dog if necessary, even the ridgebacks my parents have always had..... But these massive bull terrier breeds? No way am I risking having my throat ripped out by those ****ing things, I am running a mile.

 

[Felon]

I'm a pretty big strong guy, and I feel pretty confident I could deal with an average dog if necessary, even the ridgebacks my parents have always had..... But these massive bull terrier breeds? No way am I risking having my throat ripped out by those ****ing things, I am running a mile.

Yeah same,

A friend of mine is retired police dog handler, he reckons if a dog like that attacks you - the best thing to do is curl up on the floor in a foetal position, head tucked in, arms over head and don't move, don't make a sound and don't try to fight it, ideally you need to protect your face, head and neck - which is the idea behind curling up, if you don't respond - there's a chance the dog will just stop.

 

[SpellowHouse]

No penalty will be enough, because until it happens, it can't possibly happen, in the owner's view, so there is no deterrent. I'm quite sure that every owner who has seen their dog maul someone to death is absolutely mortified and probably traumatised by it.

That level of aggression in such a strong animal is worse than a lethal weapon, because they literally have a mind of their own.

I'm a pretty big strong guy, and I feel pretty confident I could deal with an average dog if necessary, even the ridgebacks my parents have always had..... But these massive bull terrier breeds? No way am I risking having my throat ripped out by those ****ing things, I am running a mile.

Personally, I don't think it is right that non-dog-owners are left feeling intimidated like this (and of course that's exactly why the owners buy them in the first place). Large dogs should be muzzled.
I mean in this country, we are not even allowed to carry pepper spray to deal with this situations if they arise.

 

[mid_gen]

Personally, I don't think it is right that non-dog-owners are left feeling intimidated like this (and of course that's exactly why the owners buy them in the first place). Large dogs should be muzzled.
I mean in this country, we are not even allowed to carry pepper spray to deal with this situations if they arise.

Large dogs are not a problem. Pepper spray is not a solution. Muzzling safe dogs is not a solution.

Just get rid of the dangerous aggressive powerful dogs. There are plenty of safe breeds out there.

 

[ttaskmaster]

The source I cited backs up what I said and there's nothing on there about mongrels attacking more people.

There's nothing about any attacks beyond fatal ones, yet you're confident that they're so indicative of that aspect as well....

If you're going to make a claim then back it up

What, like you didn't?

What year are these stats you can't even cite from?

They're your stats - Answer your own question and don't be so lazy.

 

[Mysterae_]

Large dogs are not a problem. Pepper spray is not a solution. Muzzling safe dogs is not a solution.

Just get rid of the dangerous aggressive powerful dogs. There are plenty of safe breeds out there.

Totally agree.

When assessing risk reduction measures such as wearing PPE for a given task you first have to ask yourself, can I remove the risk totally by not doing the task at all? In this case you can by irreversibly eradicating this type of dog. Nobody needs such a beast. Keep one in the zoo with the other dangerous animals if it makes people feel better.

 

[dowie]

If you're going to make a claim then back it up

What, like you didn't?

They're your stats - Answer your own question and don't be so lazy.

The stats back up what I claimed, you're just confused. Look at the stats, see the big red line at the top:

I say this because the statistics, which you yourself have cited in the past, often assert mixed/mongrel/cross breeds and 'unknown' as the highest proportion of attacks.

Nope, the stats I cited showed that pitbull types are disproportionately killing people.

Backs up exactly what I said not whatever drivel you're coming out with about mongrels... when asked to back up your claim you can't you just sperge out. You can't even answer what year the stats you're claiming refer to. It's all just more hot air, we're on the internet, if you're going to repeatedly claim something then drop in a link...

 

[Terminal_Boy]

Personally, I don't think it is right that non-dog-owners are left feeling intimidated like this (and of course that's exactly why the owners buy them in the first place). Large dogs should be muzzled.
I mean in this country, we are not even allowed to carry pepper spray to deal with this situations if they arise.

The question is do you prefer the chance of suffering life altering injuries or the chance of not being injured at all, but being prosecuted for illegal possession of a “prohibited weapon” under Section 5 of the Firearms Act?

It should be noted that carrying small (50 or 100 ml) pepper sprays for self-defence is legal across a good deal of mainland Europe. Of course, if you use one to attack someone in a situation where you are not defending yourself or another person from an attack, you’re getting a weapons charge added to your assault charge if caught.

Personally, if I lived where being attacked by a dangerous dog was a distinct possibility, I’d carry pepper spray and take the risk of having to explain myself to a judge.

 

[ttaskmaster]

The stats back up what I claimed, you're just confused.

Where's the mention of non-fatal attacks? Serious injuries? All the stuff this is supposed to be indicative of?
Anything more than just the fatalities which I myself already covered and you're just re-bleating?

As for the rest of it, your failure to read or even acknowledge what had already been posted is more disingenuity.

But do post the picture again anyway, as it amuses me when you think it means something...

 

[dowie]

Where's the mention of non-fatal attacks? Serious injuries? All the stuff this is supposed to be indicative of?

That's what I'm asking you, you're making claims re: some stats about injuries yet you can't seem to post them.

 

[mattyfez]

An interesting thing taken from that graph is:

284 deaths from pit bulls
146 from 'everything else put together'

Given that the numbers of mixed breed dogs will vastly, vastly, vastly, out number pitbulls, for mixed breed (and all others to be fair) to have such a 'low' death count very strongly suggests that there is not an inherent safety issue with dogs in general, but a very serious issue with pit bull type dogs.

That's a 95% increase in death attributable to one breed alone... I'm no statistician, but I think anyone can draw some obvious conclusions from that!

 

[Felon]

Given that the numbers of mixed breed dogs will vastly, vastly, vastly, out number pitbulls, for mixed breed (and all others to be fair) to have such a 'low' death count very strongly suggests that there is not an inherent safety issue with dogs in general, but a very serious issue with pit bull type dogs.

Yeah, this is the part that a normal person has no problem with - it's clearly obvious, that it's not a fault with all dogs everywhere, it's literally one type of breed alone, which is the cause of the problem.

Myself @dowie and others have made this point about a billion times, a billion pages ago - but it did no good.

 

[potatolord]

An interesting thing taken from that graph is:

284 deaths from pit bulls
146 from 'everything else put together'

Given that the numbers of mixed breed dogs will vastly, vastly, vastly, out number pitbulls, for mixed breed (and all others to be fair) to have such a 'low' death count very strongly suggests that there is not an inherent safety issue with dogs in general, but a very serious issue with pit bull type dogs.

That's a 95% increase in death attributable to one breed alone... I'm no statistician, but I think anyone can draw some obvious conclusions from that!

If statistics showed two thirds of road deaths involved a single type of car, and it wasn't even the most common car, you can bet questions would be asked.

 

[robfosters]

Large dogs are not a problem. Pepper spray is not a solution. Muzzling safe dogs is not a solution.

Just get rid of the dangerous aggressive powerful dogs. There are plenty of safe breeds out there.

How do you define a large, aggressive and powerful dog exactly?

What criteria would you use for this nonsense?

 

[mattyfez]

How do you define a large, aggressive and powerful dog exactly?

Pit bull type dogs

What criteria would you use for this nonsense?

Death toll

 

[robfosters]

Pit bull type dogs



Death toll

So basically just XL bullies

 

[mid_gen]

How do you define a large, aggressive and powerful dog exactly?

What criteria would you use for this nonsense?

Well, call me simple, but I'd probably use the criteria of "does this breed have a track record of mauling people to death".

 

[Felon]

I think the history and pedigree of the breed is important too.

Many of the larger more powerful breeds were bred as working dogs, so they’re also intelligent (eg Rottweilers) and in some cases have been around for centuries, ergo; they’re a known quantity.

Take the XLB - it’s a jumble of random fighting breeds thrown together to create an animal that’s dangerous and frightening, it has no legitimate useful or constructive reason to exist.

 

[ttaskmaster]

That's what I'm asking you, you're making claims re: some stats about injuries yet you can't seem to post them.

So are you, yet your lack of evidence doesn't seem to be a factor in this...
That's why I'm concerned at what you assert a high fatality rate indicates, when previous discussions have shown your assertion to be incorrect.

That's a 95% increase in death attributable to one breed alone... I'm no statistician, but I think anyone can draw some obvious conclusions from that!

The problem is in drawing conclusions from an essentially meaningless number.
Pit Bull type dogs are also most likely to be owned as status dogs, and have a massively high rate of improper handling, neglect and abuse compared to other breeds - What obvious conclusions do you draw from that?

If statistics showed two thirds of road deaths involved a single type of car, and it wasn't even the most common car, you can bet questions would be asked.

Statistics showed the Prius as being the car most often in an accident, despite it having one of the highest safety ratings of the time, yet people are still driving them to this day...
Questions probably were asked.

 

[Fubsy]

Yeah, this is the part that a normal person has no problem with - it's clearly obvious, that it's not a fault with all dogs everywhere, it's literally one type of breed alone, which is the cause of the problem.

Myself @dowie and others have made this point about a billion times, a billion pages ago - but it did no good.

Could even make our own graph of how many people have died from those breeds of dogs while the same argument has rambled on. I bet it's over 5 at least.