Does something need to be done about dogs?

Seems a mixed bag of opinions out there
I did come across
Those pretty much agree with the others.
They do assert that genetics are the main contributor to the dogs' appearance, and go on to say that genes "might" define some basic behaviours (spoiler: there's no 'might', they definitely do!) such as herding, chasing and other behaviours that define what jobs they're bred for.... But still they agree that the vast majority of the personality comes from environment and upbringing.

If it's most cases, it's not definitive they won't ever bite. I have a friend who brought a dog back from Cyprus, a country notorious for treating dogs badly. It's a very cute dog, which as you would expect, attracts a lot of attention. A gentleman went to stroke it when my friend was stood with the dog, on a lead, and it went for the guy.

My friend's (incorrect) response when the guy challenged that he was nearly bitten: "Shouldn't have tried to stroke him then"

I always told him the dog should be muzzled if he knew it could bite, which he did know because how the dog's bad upbringing in Cyprus made it untrusting of people. He didn't seem to understand that what I was saying was best for him and the dog, because the authorities wouldn't see it his way if it did eventually manage to catch someone with it's teeth.
Not at all definitive, no - It's more a case of knowing (and later recognising) the circumstances under which your dog likely will bite someone... but that's because every dog has its limits, just like every human does. It's no different to a friend of mine knowing when I will have had enough **** and decide to ******* deck the lairy drunken **** getting in my face down the pub, really... while hopefully dragging me away before I do so. Dogs just have different body language, is all.

In the case above - No, the gentleman should not have just gone up to a strange dog and tried to stroke it. I dunno what modern kids are taught, but even from primary school everyone was taught how to behave around dogs, especially other people's. Everyone I grew up with and around knows you should always ask before approaching someone else's dog.

However, your friend should also have known it could happen, known how likely it was or wasn't, and have kept a closer eye on the dog under his control. Muzzling may not always work with certain dogs and going through socialisation training is always challenging, especially for new owners. You cannot be inattentive with a dog in such situations.
 
Those pretty much agree with the others.
They do assert that genetics are the main contributor to the dogs' appearance, and go on to say that genes "might" define some basic behaviours (spoiler: there's no 'might', they definitely do!) such as herding, chasing and other behaviours that define what jobs they're bred for.... But still they agree that the vast majority of the personality comes from environment and upbringing.
You could well be right, as I said earlier in the thread I've always thought it was a mixture of genetics and upbringing, I'm still not sure how much accounts for each. We have been trying to optimise particular breeds for so long I wonder how much of the personality is intertwined with the job role of the breed.
 
The dogs......or people.
Quite a few people around have dogs including ours. How they handle them? Pretty much ok. Several terriers, my Collie, and a St Bernard. But there is one that barks aggressively. Maybe it has been has been ill used or something but I'm sure a good owners should be fix that or, if required, a trainer. But people maybe don't want to pay for it. In which case they should not have a dog.
 
No matter the breed, dogs have personalities just like people do, and much of that depends on how well they've been treated as they grew up. My dogs have been loved and cared for and in return give love without aggression in any form. It's all on the owner how they respond to strangers.
 
No matter the breed, dogs have personalities just like people do, and much of that depends on how well they've been treated as they grew up. My dogs have been loved and cared for and in return give love without aggression in any form. It's all on the owner how they respond to strangers.

See, our boy is the same. However he is incredibly protective. I think part of that is the fact that he was an isolation pup so didn't see others, both dog and human, for quite a while.
 
No matter the breed, dogs have personalities just like people do, and much of that depends on how well they've been treated as they grew up. My dogs have been loved and cared for and in return give love without aggression in any form. It's all on the owner how they respond to strangers.

This just isn't true in all cases.

My wife's aunt and uncle had two Bernese mountain dogs through their life - the first one was absolutely lovely, but the second one had serious aggression and behavioural issues, and they were bought up in exactly the same way, by exactly the same very nice people. They were always at a loss as to why as it had no reason to be aggressive at all.

You can absolutely have a dog that just naturally has personality "defects".
 
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This just isn't true in all cases.

My wife's aunt and uncle had two Bernese mountain dogs through their life - the first one was absolutely lovely, but the second one had serious aggression and behavioural issues, and they were bought up in exactly the same way, by exactly the same very nice people. They were always at a loss as to why as it had no reason to be aggressive at all.

You can absolutely have a dog that just naturally has personality "defects".
Same as humans really, you can have children brought up by the same parents with very different personality traits. I think the argument gets used as a means to try and say dogs are only dangerous if they have bad owners.
 
I think the argument gets used as a means to try and say dogs are only dangerous if they have bad owners.

Which i don't think is true in all cases. Probably in the majority, yes, but dogs can have genetic/ingrained mental issues just like humans can.

Obviously how an owner trains and treats them is massively important though.

Our dog has some mildish food aggression which he has had from a puppy (it just started randomly when he was very young), and whilst we have taken steps to improve it (and he now eats with my hand in his bowl and stroking him), i can see it is still there and i just think it is ingrained in him and will never fully go away. You can see, when faced with a large amount of food, the instinct to claim it/protect it is incredibly strong in him and I just think it is in his nature/hardwired.
 
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The problem is owners. Pretty much always the owners. Some owners train their dogs to be nasty and aggressive and others refuse to see the fact their dog is dangerous and should be treated as such. They lie to themselves that their dog is all bark and no bite.

My partners parents are the same. Their dog is crazy protective of her. Goes nuts at people randomly barking and grrring. Hes a lab/rottweiler cross. He would eat most people if he wanted to. Shes finally accepting that hes maybe dangerous and taking more precautions but for years she was adamant he wasn't an issue. He bit me on the face when he was younger because I touched him while he was eating. They blamed me for that.
 
Your always going to get some dogs that are dangerous to humans.
Just stop breeding these massive oversized dogs with big and powerful jaws.

But how? The moment they make a particular breed illegal, all the chavs want one.

The problem is owners. Pretty much always the owners. Some owners train their dogs to be nasty and aggressive and others refuse to see the fact their dog is dangerous and should be treated as such. They lie to themselves that their dog is all bark and no bite.

Absolutely true. I honestly don't know how you get it through to people that they must be responsible with their dog.
 
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Our dog has some mildish food aggression which he has had from a puppy (it just started randomly when he was very young), and whilst we have taken steps to improve it (and he now eats with my hand in his bowl and stroking him), i can see it is still there and i just think it is ingrained in him and will never fully go away. You can see, when faced with a large amount of food, the instinct to claim it/protect it is incredibly strong in him and I just think it is in his nature/hardwired.

Our labradoodle (15 month old) is exactly like this. Soft as clarts, wants to cuddle and meet everyone, but when his food is out his heckles come up and if people get close he does this little low growl while eating. Same as you, taking steps to train it out of him but he’s just so good orientated think it’s just in his nature.
 
The problem is owners. Pretty much always the owners. Some owners train their dogs to be nasty and aggressive and others refuse to see the fact their dog is dangerous and should be treated as such. They lie to themselves that their dog is all bark and no bite.

My partners parents are the same. Their dog is crazy protective of her. Goes nuts at people randomly barking and grrring. Hes a lab/rottweiler cross. He would eat most people if he wanted to. Shes finally accepting that hes maybe dangerous and taking more precautions but for years she was adamant he wasn't an issue. He bit me on the face when he was younger because I touched him while he was eating. They blamed me for that.
Your post is confusing, your second example indicates it would be a problem with the dog "and" the owner for not been able to handle a bad dog.

Sadly whatever the cause is, there is clear opposition to doing anything, so I cant see anything changing, people will continue to be attacked, and continue to be killed because as a dog loving nation we wouldnt accept restrictions or certain breeds been added to the dangerous breed list.
 
Our labradoodle (15 month old) is exactly like this. Soft as clarts, wants to cuddle and meet everyone, but when his food is out his heckles come up and if people get close he does this little low growl while eating. Same as you, taking steps to train it out of him but he’s just so good orientated think it’s just in his nature.

Yep. Mine is as soft as anything every other time. You can do what you like with him, he isn't possessive over toys (he will drop anything he has on command), he will even wait until you say it is ok to eat a treat if you put it right in front of him/his nose.

However as soon as he is confronted with a large volume of food (ie his main meal in his bowl), you can see some serious feral/instinctual resource guarding behavior coming out.
 
Your post is confusing, your second example indicates it would be a problem with the dog "and" the owner for not been able to handle a bad dog.

What do you mean? You are supposed to train dogs to not be aggressive if someone comes near their food or even takes it away. My point about the breed is that if you have a dog that could easily kill someone you have to be extra extra careful about training them.

There should be far more laws that tie the behaviour of animals to the owners. If your dog does some serious damage to someone you should go to prison if you have neglected your duties as a dog owner. If your dog is violent you either need to mitigate that or have the animal put down.
 
What do you mean? You are supposed to train dogs to not be aggressive if someone comes near their food or even takes it away. My point about the breed is that if you have a dog that could easily kill someone you have to be extra extra careful about training them.

There should be far more laws that tie the behaviour of animals to the owners. If your dog does some serious damage to someone you should go to prison if you have neglected your duties as a dog owner. If your dog is violent you either need to mitigate that or have the animal put down.

Your second example I read as in the dog not been trained to be aggressive but is anyway.


and others refuse to see the fact their dog is dangerous and should be treated as such. They lie to themselves that their dog is all bark and no bite.
 
Our labradoodle (15 month old) is exactly like this. Soft as clarts, wants to cuddle and meet everyone, but when his food is out his heckles come up and if people get close he does this little low growl while eating. Same as you, taking steps to train it out of him but he’s just so good orientated think it’s just in his nature.
This is one of the behaviours that makes a dog a dog :) They normally like to be left alone when eating and if they don't it's because it's been trained out of them (not necessarily purposefully) and they now accept it's safe to have someone near at dinner time. If you have more than one dog they will usually leave a respectful distance from each other during feeding time. However, you do have to be careful such instinct doesn't morph into more generalised guarding behaviour where every treat/toy is protected the same way as that can develop into a real problem. I've owned one dog like that and never did manage to get rid of guarding to the point I would never giver her a bone to chew, but she was absolutely fine otherwise.
 
What do you mean? You are supposed to train dogs to not be aggressive if someone comes near their food or even takes it away. My point about the breed is that if you have a dog that could easily kill someone you have to be extra extra careful about training them.

There should be far more laws that tie the behaviour of animals to the owners. If your dog does some serious damage to someone you should go to prison if you have neglected your duties as a dog owner. If your dog is violent you either need to mitigate that or have the animal put down.

Food aggression/food resource guarding is supposedly very common in dogs. So much so that most of them would have to be put down if you thought it was a problem. Yes, you can and should train them to control it better, but to be honest I think it is impossible to get rid of it to some degree.
 
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