Does something need to be done about dogs?

Doobedoo said:
Dangerous according to you though but also every knife is dangerous if the intent is to injure.
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Do you not understand that a big machete or zombie knife is more dangerous than a butter knife if the intent is to injure?

This is perhaps the same issue people have with dogs, sure a butter knife can be dangerous in the hands of a bad person, as can a Pug... but really a pitbull-type dog like a bully XL is rather more concerning.

So while it's nice to hope that you can just educate people and make them not bad people it's perhaps also a good idea to not allow big knives onto the street or indeed dog breeds that are just a huge outlier in terms of the deaths and serious injuries they cause.
 
200sols said:
Things change and the list needs to be adapted accordingly. This idea that laws are static and can never be changed is rubbish.
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Context is everything though isn’t it. Is the dog dangerous or was the owner irresponsible. Some in here think Staffies are but I’ve had nothing but positive experiences with Staffies and would not hesitate to bring my unborn child up with one.
 
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Dis86 said:
www.akc.org

Most Popular Dog Breeds of 2022 - American Kennel Club

The AKC uses registration data to collect the most popular breeds of the past year, and for the first time in history, the French Bulldog takes the #1 spot
www.akc.org www.akc.org

10 seconds on google
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Apparently that's only registered pedigree dogs and you can't use that, because apparently most problem dosg are owned by scumbags who don't register them... or so I am told.

gingergundog said:
shall we start posting stats and attacks from all the other countries in world?
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Stats, no, but studies and analysis of behaviours (both dogs, and any humans involved) can be quite useful.

Dis86 said:
Then if you don't read it maybe you should pipe down to stop yourself looking rather stupid?
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It didn't stop other posers from doing the same...

dowie said:
So while it's nice to hope that you can just educate people and make them not bad people it's perhaps also a good idea to not allow big knives onto the street or indeed dog breeds that are just a huge outlier in terms of the deaths and serious injuries they cause.
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It's not really worked for anything else, and certain dogs are already banned yet are still out there 'on the streets'... What makes you think more banning will have any impact?
 
I think the middle line for @ttaskmaster and @dowie arguments is to have Dog Licenses, like a driving license, where the user must understand all hazards of having a dog in order to own one. Then you have written into law criminal convictions for the owner of a dangerous dog that commits dangerous acts along the lines with knife crime. It would be worth having greater regulation for dog breeders. Anyone not having a licence gets community service. Anyone having a dog causing GBH gets similar to GBH conviction charges.
 
ANDREW GREEN said:
I think the middle line for @ttaskmaster and @dowie arguments is to have Dog Licenses, like a driving license, where the user must understand all hazards of having a dog in order to own one. Then you have written into law criminal convictions for the owner of a dangerous dog that commits dangerous acts along the lines with knife crime. It would be worth having greater regulation for dog breeders. Anyone not having a licence gets community service. Anyone having a dog causing GBH gets similar to GBH conviction charges.
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I would agree if that were likey to be enforced on a widespread basis.
But similar measures against such issues have been tried before and not succeeded, for various reasons.

People break laws because they think it's cool and they're a rebel, or because they think they can get away with it no matter how harsh the punishment.
If you make it seriously uncool in the eyes of their peers, and make it very likely they will be met with severe consequences, that's a far bigger deterrent. Instead of thinking he's cool with his status dog, what if people look at Mister Scumbag like he was Gary Glitter walking free?
You need that level of societal hatred and rejection levied against these people, to make them too ashamed and fearful of owning a dog for such reasons, never mind ever mistreating one or failing to look after its behaviour... and it can easily be done with just a bit of effort.
 
dowie said:
And also includes breeds that aren't rare in the UK! It's an umbrella term and I don't really see that there is a huge difference there, just look at the recent fatalities in the UK too of the 18 instances listed from 2020 12 of them involve dogs that would fall under "pitbull" in those US stats... they're American Bully XLs, a Staffie cross, an American bulldogs and a Staffie.

That's 66% of the fatalities since 2020 are from incidents involving bull terrier-type dogs, like I already pointed out these dogs don't magically turn into pugs just because they cross the Atlantic, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the US data and realise they're a bigger risk and also see the (smaller sample) UK data and see the same:

List of fatal dog attacks in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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The problem with that is that the majority of the 284 attacks from the chart you posted will probably be American Pit Bull Terriers, it would be interesting to see what other breeds, whether its AmStaff, American Bulldog, Staffie etc are involved under the US Pit Bull umbrella term. If they separated them then the chart might not be be so irrelevant.

Being in the UK I(and probably most here) don't tend take much notice of terminology from the US, ill normally just use the terms set out by The Kennel Club.

If someone posted a similar chart from the UK with number of attacks based on breed id love to see it. I did ask @chrcoluk for some stats on attacks in the UK.
 
gingergundog said:
If someone posted a similar chart from the UK with number of attacks based on breed id love to see it. I did ask @chrcoluk for some stats on attacks in the UK.
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I just provided you with some recent stats on attacks in the UK??? 2/3rds of the fatalities in the UK since 2020 involved types of dogs that would have come under that pitbull classification in the US. You can click on the link and have a quick scan through the other incidents too.
 
gingergundog said:
If someone posted a similar chart from the UK with number of attacks based on breed id love to see it. I did ask @chrcoluk for some stats on attacks in the UK.
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You'd have to validate the sources still - As discussed earlier, many of the breeds 'identified' data will have come from a form that was filled out by a doctor, Police officer or someone else who did not even see the dog, and then relies on the ability of the victim (or other eyewitness) to accurately identify the raging ball of fur and teeth during a time of extreme duress.

gingergundog said:
Agree with that, behavioural stuff is fine as its universal.
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You do still have to filter it for cultural differences though - I don't know of many Chavscum types in other countries, and I expect their equivalents may favour different breeds/types to attain 'status'.
I find the same with car brands, for example - Our BMW driver here would favour a Merc in some places, whereas the Merc is more of an old mans' car sort of brand here.
 
When a dog kills someone it is generally confiscated and destroyed, it's not just a "raging ball of fur and teeth" only seen for a brief moment and again 2/3rds of recent fatalities (since 2020) have involved "pit bulls" in the US sense of the word. As with the US stats they're a clear outlier, you'll need a better argument than ackchually sometimes they're misidentified to try and explain away those.

I doubt very much they're actually mistakenly identified Pugs for example.
 
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I actually had a weird experience recently with a dog who changed overnight.

I walk my dogs off lead all the time at a costal nature reserve, though occasionally clip them back on if another dog passing by is on a lead.

Anyway, there are some professional dog walkers I am friendly with who have been walking various dogs over time, inc a staffie which has always been friendly.

The other day he bit my Vizsla, they were arguing over a dead bird. Luckily it was only a puncture wound, and I assumed it was dogs being dogs.

Then less than a week later he bit my Labrador, who had gone up to greet the dog walker as normal, but my lab ended up with a puncture wound under her mouth. The walkers said the owner has recently found out she's pregnant and the dog has changed since then. Also it's 18 months old so possibly maturing in to Adulthood (It's been 'done' though)

Since the biting, the owner is supposed to be fitting it for a muzzle, and the dog walkers were keeping it on lead but it's gone for some of the other dogs they walk as well so is being problematic.

Weird to see a dog completely change in a few short weeks.
 
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