Does something need to be done about dogs?

Soldato
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Well - that argument would make sense if other dogs have been tearing people up for years, but they haven't. The BXL comes along - and the fatality rate literally doubled because of attacks from that breed, we've had dogs like Rottweilers for centuries and it's only in the last couple of years, since these mutant breeds appeared that this problem really got "bad".

Firstly, the issue has been made more complex by the Covid lockdown, and the isolation mentality that has led to the similar surge in general dog ownership, as well as people not taking the time to get proper training for both themselves and the dog.
It's basically the 'dog for Christmas' issue that we used to have, and which led to so many ending up in rescue centres.

This may abate somewhat in a couple of years, especially if there's a focussed effort to get people taking proper responsibility. Theoretically, XLBs should make for pretty decent and wel-behaved dogs, but only in the hands of a sensible and responsible owner and under a good trainer.

Secondly, as with all the previous kill-stats but even more so in this instance, the contexts of and the conditions in which each KSI incident occurred are a big factor.
For example, a lot of the dead victims are children. Children are more likely to die from an attack anyway, particularly those not old enough to be walking and talking... but as the details in various articles and reports show, a great many of those incidents would never have even occurred if the dogs' owners had not done something monumentally stupid.

Rottweilers have lots of good uses though, they're mega intelligent, they make good pets, good guard dogs and good working dogs - they're also an understood established breed, which I think is important because you have a good idea of what you're getting.
The exact same can be said of many different breeds, all of which can (and in some cases did) kill people when their owners have done something stupid.

Which in a way - is why I support a ban on these dogs, they shouldn't really exist. Existing dogs should be allowed to live out their lives - but I think we should prohibit any further breeding and let the breed go extinct naturally.
(How the hell we enforce this in a world where you get burgled and the cops don't show, I don't know - but I still think it's the best approach).
I concur, this would be a sensible approach, but only if you could very tightly police the unregistered breeding and that will take a LOT of effort.

Outright bans just make things more attractive to the criminal element.
This is one reason why so many associated professionals advise against it.

Making things mandatory like insurance, licencing and so on would only work if they were universally dirt-cheap and, unlike previous implementations, were more than just coffer-fillers for local government. Otherwise you'll just get too many people ignoring it, and you'll still be faced with lacking enough law enforcement checking and enforcing it. I also expect that, as with pet medical insurance, many people would find that companies had shafted them in the small print, leading to a large discontinuance.

Microchipping costs £15, but can even be had for free, which is why it has been mostly successful... The authorities do need a better and wider supply of portable scanners, though, to help further this success.
 
Associate
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Applied mathematics degree so...awks. like I said you're in denial. Don't come crying if your pooch ever rips that kids arms and legs off though. You're to blame.
And in that case you ought to understand the statistics. Yes, there are dogs that can be vicious but that is owners who are the problem. I, and others, understand that.
 
Soldato
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And in that case you ought to understand the statistics. Yes, there are dogs that can be vicious but that is owners who are the problem. I, and others, understand that.

That's sounds like the average American trying to justify guns. The implication seems to be that all we have to do is educate owners., which is an approach that is absolutely doomed to failure. Even if you could get people to attend courses, not all people have the right mentality to apply the knowledge, not to mention that some dogs don't respond to training. No, just blaming the owners may well be correct, but it doesn't point towards any sort of solution. Trying to train the public is worse than training the dogs.

To my mind there is only one solution, that we have to increase breed bans, and we have to have the vets forced to implement it. Dogs must be chipped now, so vets are in an ideal situation to police matters and themselves be policed. A £10,000 fine for a vet if they are found to have chipped a dog and not reported it as a suspected banned breed.
 
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Soldato
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Compared with the total dogs in this country it is infrequent but I don't suppose you are statistician.

It's pretty serious for the five people who get bitten every day. To me, one attack is too many.

Having said that, this figure, I think, is postmen. And certainly I would make the simple rule of "keep your dog in, or you don't get mail".
 
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Associate
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Applied mathematics degree so...awks. like I said you're in denial. Don't come crying if your pooch ever rips that kids arms and legs off though. You're to blame.
So you think a cocker spaniel or what looks like a sheepdog kept by a what is probably a responsible owner is likely to "rip a kids arms and legs off". oh wait u have a have a maths degree so must be true then. better kill my 8kg 12 inch high patterdale terrier before it commits mass murder.
 
Caporegime
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It's pretty serious for the five people who get bitten every day. To me, one attack is too many.

Having said that, this figure, I think, is postmen. And certainly I would make the simple rule of "keep your dog in, or you don't get mail".

Keep in mind that's just 5 from one profession every day.
There are about 90k posties in the uk so that's approximately 2% recording dog attacks every year.
 
Caporegime
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So you think a cocker spaniel or what looks like a sheepdog kept by a what is probably a responsible owner is likely to "rip a kids arms and legs off". oh wait u have a have a maths degree so must be true then. better kill my 8kg 12 inch high patterdale terrier before it commits mass murder.

What is it with dog owners and the inability to read? Seems to be some weird quirk many develop.
 
Associate
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Royal Mail reveals surge in dog attacks on postal workers


Nothing to see here, just people regularly being attacked whilst doing their jobs but everything is fine.
Who said there's nothing to see here and everything is fine (apart from you)? It's made national news, of course people have taken notice.
Dog attacks on postal workers is an issue. I think any dog owner who allows their dog to do this should be heavily punished.
It's the owners who could prevent it and if there were real penalties i'm sure it could help prevent it.
I bet a fair proportion of attacks are by the naturally aggressive breeds with d1ckhead owners, who should be banned from owning a dog in the 1st place, nevermind the breed being banned.
 
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