Donald Trump

[Pottsey]

Again, campaign misuse of funds isn't stealing which is the claim from the user

Trump 'supporters' probably ignored these claims because despite your continued assertion that trump stole money he didnt


From the Snopes fact check:

"What's False
However, neither Trump, nor his children Ivanka and Eric, nor his foundation, were found to have "stolen" or kept any of the donations, and so none of them "admitted to" any such actions. The New York Supreme Court explicitly acknowledged that all the funds raised for veterans groups had ultimately reached veterans groups."

It's not just you though, it's all the tds sufferers..claim something, proven wrong, ignore the evidence and continue to post the same drivel, resort to adhomen personal attacks. The trump thread in SC isn't for reasoned discussion, it's for mocking trump and nothing else. Posters there have explicitly said that.

Misuse of funds isn't stealing is just technical word play. What do you call it when someone takes vast sums of charity money and spends it on themselves and none charity things?

The only reason Trump was found to have not kept any of the donations was because he paid it all back due to the investigation. Just because Trump was forced to pay it all back doesn’t mean Trump did not in the first place take the money and spend it.

In the end all of the money went to the correct place but only after Trump removed it from the charity, the investigation started and then Trump paid it all back.

Just some select proven examples taken directly from the court case documents. Trump took $250,000 from the charity to settle lawsuits involving his for-profit businesses. He gave 10 of thousands to political committee associates. He bought items for himself, bought items for his family, brought items for his hotels via the charity money and even paid his sons monthly club costs out of the charity. It’s all documented in the court case files.

One last example. The court case had a hand written note by Trump and I quote directly from the court document. “Mr. Trump personally directed his accounting staff to draw the $100,000 payment from the assets of the Foundation, not his personal accounts or the accounts of Mar-A-Lago in the following handwritten note he sent (image in the court case file):” The Foundation was not involved in the lawsuit in any way but Trump paid for the lawsuit directly out of the charity foundation.

Don't you find it corrupt and immoral to take charity money to pay off your own lawsuits and buy a painting and other items for yourself and family? I don't see how paying it back makes what he did as ok. He still tried to take that money for himself, got caught doing it and then paid it all back. Anyway I don't want to go into this again I only posted it as Angilion wanted to see examples of how I tried to engage in fair reasonable debate with some Trump fans and a select few fans responded with one liners, memes, silly comments and blanking evidence.

 

[RxR]

Wow.

Touch a nerve did I?

Are you really saying that you believe you don't come across as someone who feels oppressed or whatever when you talk about the division caused by 'progressives'?

Formally speaking, you are begging the question.

 

[Jono8]

Again, campaign misuse of funds isn't stealing which is the claim from the user

Pointless semantics.

If you gave me £300 to do something for you, and i instead spent it on a new graphics card fro myself, you can be damn sure that you would think i had, in effect, stolen that money from you.

 

[Kyo]

Again, campaign misuse of funds isn't stealing which is the claim from the user

Pointless semantics.

If you gave me £300 to do something for you, and i instead spent it on a new graphics card fro myself, you can be damn sure that you would think i had, in effect, stolen that money from you.

Its hilarious. How one can relabel Trump misdemeanors and its instantly viewed as an acceptable and plausible explanation. Yet posters who who call out Trump and highlight his corruption are the unreasonable ones? LoL

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

Well well well even Fox News and "Dr Oz" have changed their tune on hydroxychloroquine now. Just a few short days ago when Trump was pushing this hard so were they. But all us "libs" were just wanting it to fail to make Trump look bad when we said Trump pushing a drug like that was irresponsible and dangerous

https://twitter.com/x/status/1252935946477228036

 

[Newbie007]

Pointless semantics.

If you gave me £300 to do something for you, and i instead spent it on a new graphics card fro myself, you can be damn sure that you would think i had, in effect, stolen that money from you.

Trump was fined ONLY because he was doing a political event DURING the charity event, and that's seen as using your charity to promote your campaign. In addition, he had his campaign staff give the checks to the charities, rather than his charity staff. This also breaks the rules by once more giving attention from the charity to the campaign.

 

[Kyo]

 

[plasmahal]

Its hilarious. How one can relabel Trump misdemeanors and its instantly viewed as an acceptable and plausible explanation. Yet posters who who call out Trump and highlight his corruption are the unreasonable ones? LoL

Lets take that back a few years and apply it to someone else who was found guilty of campaign violations and fined heavily.

Its hilarious. How one can relabel Obama's misdemeanours and its instantly viewed as an acceptable and plausible explanation. Yet posters who who call out Obama and highlight his corruption are the unreasonable ones?

In 2013, President Obama's campaign was fined $375,000 by the Federal Election Commission after his 2008 campaign did not turn in reports for about 1,300 last-minute donations that totaled nearly $1.9 million.

The fine was one of the largest against a presidential campaign and topped the $208,000 in civil penalties paid by the Rev. Al Sharpton after failing to accurately report receipts and spending during his 2004 presidential bid.

But I'm sure you'll find a way to explain you double standard.

 

[Murphy]

How is that not stealing??!!
Isn't that like saying I didn't steal your money that was meant to go to a soup kitchen to buy a house! I used that money to buy a sports car to make the deliveries in. Sure, from the money I saved not having to pay for a car I bought a house.

In the strictest sense of the word, I'm in no way a Trump fan but from what i understand neither he or his organization took another person's property without permission or legal right and without intending to return it, that's not to say he didn't misuse the funds or has never stolen anything, it's simply stating that the people who the funds were intended for got it. He basically did what he seems to be doing with the "i never asked for my name to be put on those $1200 cheques" thing, he made it seem like the funds were coming from him rather than charitable donations to his charity or the state.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

Haha touche! I tell you those Iranians and their flying gunboats. Clear and present danger

https://twitter.com/x/status/1252973216685056000

 

[RxR]

The Iranian gunboats were reported yesterday as deliberately coming within 10m of one of the US Coastguard ships in the Straits. At sea, at motion, that's a close distance.

Report in Aussie media says 9m:

https://abc.net.au/news/2020-04-23/trump-instructs-navy-to-destroy-iranian-boats/12174846

 

[mjt]

 

[Pottsey]

Trump was fined ONLY because he was doing a political event DURING the charity event, and that's seen as using your charity to promote your campaign. In addition, he had his campaign staff give the checks to the charities, rather than his charity staff. This also breaks the rules by once more giving attention from the charity to the campaign.

That is not true that is not the only reason Trump was fined. The court case made it very clear that Trump took charity money to pay lawsuits that had nothing to do with the charity. They also listed 10 of thousands he gave to friends for political gain. They also listed the charity items he spent money on for himself and family. All that happened which to me is pure corruption and immoral behavior.

To quote the courts document word for word “In sum, the Investigation revealed that the Foundation was little more than a checkbook for payments to not-for-profits from Mr. Trump or the Trump Organization. This resulted in multiple violations of state and federal law because payments were made using Foundation money regardless of the purpose of the payment. Mr. Trump used charitable assets to pay off the legal obligations of entities he controlled, to promote Trump hotels, to purchase personal items, and to support his presidential election campaign.” source direct from the court document INDEX NO. 451130/2018

Furthermore and paraphrasing this bit "As a result of these persistent violations of law by the Respondents (Turmp), the Attomey General brings this special proceeding to dissolve the Foundation to make restitution and pay all penalties resulting from the breach of fiduciary duties and their misuse of charitable assets for the benefit of Mr. Trump "

 

[Domi]

But I'm sure you'll find a way to explain you double standard.

Why do you assume a double standard?

This is the absolute issue with the whatabout ism that people keep throwing about.

You are making the weird assumption that Obama supporters would think his administration should not be fined for breaking the rules or calling him corrupt if he acted as Donald Trump has.

A president absolutely should be held to account for his actions AND those of his or her administration , I really do not see why so many of Trumps supporters do not get this.

The whole argument is not about republicans or democrats or what previous or future presidents may or may not have done.

Donald Trump is simply not fit for highest office as he is a dishonest scumbag of a human being who is very much out of his depth.

 

[RxR]

It is always good to know who the crooks are.

 

[Kyo]

Why do you assume a double standard?

This is the absolute issue with the whatabout ism that people keep throwing about.

You are making the weird assumption that Obama supporters would think his administration should not be fined for breaking the rules or calling him corrupt if he acted as Donald Trump has.

A president absolutely should be held to account for his actions AND those of his or her administration , I really do not see why so many of Trumps supporters do not get this.

The whole argument is not about republicans or democrats or what previous or future presidents may or may not have done.

Donald Trump is simply not fit for highest office as he is a dishonest scumbag of a human being who is very much out of his depth.

Well said. I personally wouldn't waste time responding or rationalising as that particular Trump defender has demonstrated he not interested in anything like facts, science. He is here just to parrot Trump talking points and promote his prejudice towards certain groups.

 

[Murphy]

That is not true that is not the only reason Trump was fined. The court case made it very clear that Trump took charity money to pay lawsuits that had nothing to do with the charity. They also listed 10 of thousands he gave to friends for political gain. They also listed the charity items he spent money on for himself and family. All that happened which to me is pure corruption and immoral behavior.

To quote the courts document word for word “In sum, the Investigation revealed that the Foundation was little more than a checkbook for payments to not-for-profits from Mr. Trump or the Trump Organization. This resulted in multiple violations of state and federal law because payments were made using Foundation money regardless of the purpose of the payment. Mr. Trump used charitable assets to pay off the legal obligations of entities he controlled, to promote Trump hotels, to purchase personal items, and to support his presidential election campaign.” source direct from the court document INDEX NO. 451130/2018

Furthermore and paraphrasing this bit "As a result of these persistent violations of law by the Respondents (Turmp), the Attomey General brings this special proceeding to dissolve the Foundation to make restitution and pay all penalties resulting from the breach of fiduciary duties and their misuse of charitable assets for the benefit of Mr. Trump "

I hate to do this but that's what the AG said, it's not what the courts said, the AG is (should even) be putting the states case as strongly as possible, you wouldn't expect what's essentially the solicitor for the UK government to not go into a court case, like the miller case for instance, not making as strong a case as possible.

The investigation may have revealed what you quoted but ultimately it's the court that decides on the validity of the AG's interpretation and they simply didn't. Again that's not to say the courts didn't find any misuse or doggy AF stuff going on, just that they didn't agree with the AG's interpretation of the facts.

 

[Jono8]

Trump was fined ONLY because he was doing a political event DURING the charity event, and that's seen as using your charity to promote your campaign. In addition, he had his campaign staff give the checks to the charities, rather than his charity staff. This also breaks the rules by once more giving attention from the charity to the campaign.

This isn't true, as has been explained to you by Pottsey.

 

[Murphy]

This isn't true, as has been explained to you by Pottsey.

As pointed out Pottsey is mistaken, here is the court order (PDF Warning).

As stated above, I find that the $2,823,000 raised at the Fundraiser was used for Mr. Trump’s political campaign and disbursed by Mr. Trump’s campaign staff, rather than by the Foundation, in violation of N-PCL §§ 717 and 720 and EPTL §§ 8-1.4 and 8-1.8. However, taking into consideration that the Funds did ultimately reach their intended destinations, i.e., charitable organizations supporting veterans, I award damages on the breach of fiduciary duty/waste claim against Mr. Trump in the amount of $2,000,000, without interest, rather than the entire $2,823,000 sought by the Attorney General. Further, because the parties have agreed to dissolve the Foundation, I direct Mr.Trump to pay the $2,000,000, which would have gone to the Foundation if it were still in existence, on a pro rata basis to the Approved Recipients.

The judge found that the money raised at the fund raiser was used for Mr. Trump’s political campaign and disbursed by Mr. Trump’s campaign staff, rather than by the Foundation.

Like i said it's essentially the same thing he's doing with those "i didn't ask for my name to be put on those $1200 cheques", he made it seem the donations where coming from him and his campaign rather than the foundation.

 

[Pottsey]

As pointed out Pottsey is mistaken, here is the court order (PDF Warning).

The judge found that the money raised at the fund raiser was used for Mr. Trump’s political campaign and disbursed by Mr. Trump’s campaign staff, rather than by the Foundation.

Like i said it's essentially the same thing he's doing with those "i didn't ask for my name to be put on those $1200 cheques", he made it seem the donations where coming from him and his campaign rather than the foundation.

Read the rest of it. It says Trump had to reimburse the charity for the items he brought out of charity money for himself. It also confirms Trump used charity money to further his political campaign which he had it pay back. Plus we have the hand written evidence of Trump directing charity money be spent on his none charity lawsuits. Just because Trump reimbursed the money due to an investigation it doesn't change the fact of what he did. Anyway its time to move on, this one has been done to death already.