Donald Trump

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Murphy said:
As was explained to you before, they called it that when it didn't have a taxonomic classification, the moment it was given an official name they switched to using that, unlike Trump.
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You can call it what you like, but explain how 'Wuhan Coronavirus' is racist?

It's clear the media went PC on it after Trump said it was chyna. Not saying he's right but CNN's initial name was correct.
 
steve5424 said:
If you actually read my post you would have seen I don't need to counter anything you said. I am not a fan of Biden either. The USA is either getting a total incompetent rascist fool for an other 4 years, or and elderly fool. Either way both are bad. It's more a who is the lesser of two evils situation.
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There is no lesser of 2 evils here really.
 
Pottsey said:
Not worst but right up there near the top. Which doesn’t change the fact Trump handling of the situation has been terrible.

Just because you don’t like to admit to being wrong about backing the wrong person it doesn’t mean I am sprouting rubbish.



It was the president job to restock the medical supplies instead he didn’t bother, going out golfing instead then blamed Obama for the stock being empty even though Trump had plenty of time to restock. This was Trumps fault and caused the virus to hit harder than it would have

There was a anti pandemic handbook to help reduce the spread. Instead of using it Trump binned it and lied saying it was Obamas fault for not leaving any anti pandemic handbook again Trumps fault.

Early on instead of given useful advice Trump was lying saying it was a democrat hoax and nothing to worry about. This caused the virus to spread more than it would have as parts of the population thought it was a hoax.

It is the presidents job to set a good example but Trumps isn’t interested refusing to wear a mask and attacks people for being sensible and wearing a mask on Memorial Day. His followers follow his example leading to more virus spread again Trump fault.

Controlling the boarder is directly Trumps responsibility and like the UK he didn’t bother doing proper checks allowing people with the virus to freely enter the US. All the while lying to the population about the virus so it spreader faster and earlier.

Protecting the economy and limiting the damage is Trumps responsibility and he has done an absolutely terrible job at this causing the worst damage in 100 years. It was always going to be bad but Trump has made it massively worse.

It is Trumps job to stand up and reassure the population and give out useful advice. Instead he talked like someone suffering from long term dementia. Spent more time praising himself then given out useful advice. Plus a ton of other stuff all covered in this thread.

Ultimately the responsibility goes to the leader at the top which is Trump. When Obama was in charge and dealt with the other virus Trump spent a long time saying the leader takes full responsibility and he constantly blamed Obama for handling that virus. Now Trump is at the top and there is a new virus so responsibility for handling the virus falls on Trump.

Or are you saying the bad things Trump had been saying about Obama are false and lies and in in fact Obama was correct and Trump was wrong?
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Again.
It's up to the governor to ask Trump for my money\things.
It's not the other way round.
"Ultimately the responsibility goes to the leader at the top which is Trump" again NO. The governor is the top guy leading the state.

You blame Trump.
Then tell why the state of Florida done so well?
Was it because of Trump? 100% NO
It was quick think by the governor that saved lives. YES
Could it be that Ronald Dion DeSantis asked the Federal gov for things that they needed? 100% YES.

The list goes on.
 
CHokKA said:
NY was getting less money than the other states DESPITE it being the highest contributor to the funds. So that's an absolute load of rubbish. They also had more cases than any other state, not because the governor didn't handle things well (he's done a better job than most of the others in NY) but because all the flights came to NY. So get your facts straight.
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Getting less money from where ?

The GDP for NY state is 1.76 Trillion a year and counting.
Florida state GDP is $815,073,000,000.

The NY state will get more this year as they taxed out of state people that came to help personal tax.
The robbing git.
 
ianh said:
You could ask the same of those attacking him so vehemently for a more rounded answer.

I suspect you'd find that those two camps (pro/against) both think they are the ones showing common sense with a rational argument whilst the the opposite side are screaming lunatics. Neither side is fully right or wrong (there's rational and loons on both side) but thats how tribalism works - "I think in a similar same way that person A does and person A is being "attacked" by person B who I don't think like so I'll defend person A even if I do/don't agree with everything they do/say" - it's pretty simple human behaviour really.
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The thing is people are attacking him for being such an absolute bottom of the barrel piece of excrement. This man doesn't seem to care about the lives lost and is only capable of focusing on his ratings and his campaign. That's reason enough to distrust him, and be rather vocal about it. I fail to see a single redeeming quality in him, and I'm also yet to see an actual legitimate reason to support him, yet here we are.

plasmahal said:
The left column is not irrelevant at all, so don't deflect. It's relevant as areas/locations have been used to define the name of disease (some more accurately than others). I'm not saying it's right or wrong.

We as a society did not decide it at all. There was no consensus on that. The media has made that decision for you.

I don't agree with the use of the Chinese virus as that is too vague and also upsets the overly-sensitive people.

CNN got it right when they called it the 'Wuhan CoronaVirus', which is both accurate in location and type of disease.
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I'm not deflecting, I'm correcting. It's irrelevant. The only people trying to make it relevant are those who are pushing the whole "chinese virus" thing which just cements the point I'm trying to make.

None of those awful events have anything to do with COVID.
 
deuse said:
Getting less money from where ?

The GDP for NY state is 1.76 Trillion a year and counting.
Florida state GDP is $815,073,000,000.

The NY state will get more this year as they taxed out of state people that came to help personal tax.
The robbing git.
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Why the outrage? NY has state income taxes so taxing the income of people who come work there isn’t abnormal. The travel nurses who went up there were earning over $10k/week so I’m sure they won’t be short of money.
 
wesimmo said:
Which bit of that are you disputing?

Racist. Check
Immoral. Check
Incompetent. Check
Puerile. Check
Dishonest. Check
Mysogynistic. Check
Corrupt. Check

None of those are disputable, all of those character traits can be demonstrated multiple times through his own words and actions.
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The subjective bit is whether you think those attributes are admirable (Trump supporters) or condemnable (Decent human beings)
 
deuse said:
Again.
It's up to the governor to ask Trump for my money\things.
It's not the other way round.
"Ultimately the responsibility goes to the leader at the top which is Trump" again NO. The governor is the top guy leading the state.

You blame Trump.
Then tell why the state of Florida done so well?
Was it because of Trump? 100% NO
It was quick think by the governor that saved lives. YES
Could it be that Ronald Dion DeSantis asked the Federal gov for things that they needed? 100% YES.

The list goes on.
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Floaria is sparsely populated with wide open spaces and in many areas buildings that have very low height restrictions leading to few people inside. Plus in relation to New York there is little air traffic condensed into a small area which combined together creates a poor breeding ground for the virus making it harder to spread.

So you agree Obama didn’t handle his virus badly and in fact handling the situation well and how he should have. So if I understand you right you agree that Trump was completely wrong with his multiple attacks in various areas against Obama actions during his virus outbreak. So you agree it was Trump that was in the wrong and Obama was correct in that situation?
 
Murphy said:
To be fair you're both right, although going on what I've read it seems medical opinion is currently leaning in the direction of higher death rates, the evidence is, however, inconclusive, that's probably why the NHS started trials as they wanted to answer that question for themselves.
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Which is why I referred to the huge amount of even basic things that are not known about this disease. It's possible that hydrochloroquine is beneficial in some cases and detrimental in others. There's far too much that isn't know about this disease with outcomes varying from not even any symptoms at all to death even with the best modern medical care and various symptoms affecting skin, kidneys, liver, heart, sense of smell, blood, brain and lungs. But different symptoms and different body parts affected in different patients. For no known reasons.

I've not read the details of the trails cited that mention more deaths so I'm just going to take people at their word, however I'd also say what you linked to above isn't exactly conclusive either, for example the one you linked to directly was only conducted on 100 patients (and if you buy into the China bad rhetoric there's also that), and all the reference material (maybe different for you) is basically papers talking about that trail of 100 people and about the potential efficacy and dangers of chloroquine, the first two i read make it pretty clear the margin between the therapeutic and toxic dose is narrow.
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There were other initial trials and feedback from doctors who were conducting informal trials as they tried to find any treatment. It wasn't conclusive and I never claimed it was. Unlike the ludicrously biased people who are devout in their faith that everything Trump approves of must be wrong and evil because he's the AntiChrist or something and that's conclusive.

It's a stupid idea for the leader of a country to be openly in favour of an experimental treatment with extremely limited evidence for a disease that nobody understands. But not as stupid as some ludicrously biased people are making out, nor as greedy as some ludicrously biased people are making out (which doesn't make any sense at all since the drug is off patent and there's hardly any profit in it and Indian companys have the market sewn up already).
 
plasmahal said:
They are condemn-able for both these politicians (trump vs biden).
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Yes?

Show me where I've supported Biden?. That's the problem with you guys, you have such limited thinking everything is just black and white, left and right and it's just about "winning" rather than doing what's right.

If Biden gets to be President and acts in a similarly atrocious manner as Trump, I will be just as vocal against him, I certainly wouldn't be lowering myself into defending his outrageous behaviour because of some perceived "sides"
 
Freakbro said:
Why would he be called a Trump lover when he openly expresses he thinks the guy is a complete idiot :confused:
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I have been.

The reason why is the extreme polarisation and extremism. So anything other than absolute raging hatred of Trump and absolute condemnation of him in every way at every opportunity for every reason (real or wildly biased or wildly exaggerated or completely fictional) and more vehemently than everyone else is condemned as being a Trump lover. It's like the white supremicists of the past and their name-calling of "[magic word banned here] lover" or the McCarthyite era "communist sympathiser", etc, etc, etc.

When extremism is an all-consuming passion, anything less than maximum extremism is condemned as being the opposite extreme. There's no room in such a mentality for anything other than two fervent extremes in absolute opposition with one being Holy Wonderful Goodness and the other being Diabolic Vile Evil. No exceptions, no other position can exist. You're absolutely with us in every way or you're THE EVIL ONE THE DEVIL THE SCUM OF VILENESS!
 
Freakbro said:
And that's why the advisory scientists say deaths per capita is not a good metric to make inter country comparisons, but comparative excess deaths.
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Do you have that data?

I wish you would stop peddling that nonsense
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It's the best data that's easily publically available. But hey, it must be nonsense because it doesn't agree with the idea that Trump is The Antichrist.
 
Orionaut said:
If I am reading those curves right. The USA is getting it just right. A nice flat new case curve that is within the capacity of its healthcare system to handle.
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Not really, no. The USA had far more warning than many other countries. It has a lower population density than many other countries. It has far more money than many other countries. It should have done better. New case numbers are extremely unreliable because not everyone is tested and an extremely bad way to compare different countries because testing rates vary wildly between countries.

My point wasn't that the USA is getting it just right (it isn't). My point was that the USA isn't getting it as wrong as rabid Trump-haters are claiming.
 
Angilion said:
I have been.

The reason why is the extreme polarisation and extremism. So anything other than absolute raging hatred of Trump and absolute condemnation of him in every way at every opportunity for every reason (real or wildly biased or wildly exaggerated or completely fictional) and more vehemently than everyone else is condemned as being a Trump lover. It's like the white supremicists of the past and their name-calling of "[magic word banned here] lover" or the McCarthyite era "communist sympathiser", etc, etc, etc.

When extremism is an all-consuming passion, anything less than maximum extremism is condemned as being the opposite extreme. There's no room in such a mentality for anything other than two fervent extremes in absolute opposition with one being Holy Wonderful Goodness and the other being Diabolic Vile Evil. No exceptions, no other position can exist. You're absolutely with us in every way or you're THE EVIL ONE THE DEVIL THE SCUM OF VILENESS!
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Though a lot of your replies do seem to display a fundamental lack of understanding of nuance and take extremist points of view (like your portrayal above of the only two types of feelings towards Trump - which is demonstrably not true) and especially when about biological & group identity politics.
 
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