DON'T BUY MSI THEY MIS-SOLD TOP SPEC GT SERIES LAPTOPS with MXM Graphics

[MiSJAH]

They are charging me 880 pounds for a much better graphic card, a better processor, a G-sync screen, a PCIe SSD and an overall new laptop that will come with 2 years warranty, sounds pretty OK to me.

Again, I'm maybe kind of lucky because my laptop was a basic one and within just the limit of my 2 years warranty.

Honestly, I'm not sure at all I would have been able to sold a 970m MXM graphic cards second hand ... I would not have had a lot of quids against it. Yeah if you take all these costs separately, the cost of the upgrade would have been a bit lower if it was just upgrading the graphic with the thinking you would sold the old 970m at a decent price. But this is a bit ideal world. In reality, I would not have sold easily my 970m which is now outdated with the new Pascal GPU. and this lost overall is compensated by the fact that I will have new laptop with latest technologies. Again, I cannot see too much ground to complain..in my case.

Where I find MSI certainly unfair is to do this trade in program only on the warranty period, I think they should extend to all users, warranty or not, with proof of receipt in your name.

If MSI need to provide those components to upgrade to pascal, you should not have to pay for them.

Have a look online at the benefits in gaming of this new technology, there is very little, my 4th gen i7, ddr3 laptop, sata ssd beats all of the laptops with 6700hq, ddr4, pcie ssds with the same gpu in all benchmarks and get better fps. They are charging you extra for snake oil.

Edit: How many ssds can the machine you are upgrading to raid, and how is the mux switch?

MSI announced that this program will cost an amount comparable to previuos MXM upgrades, not that they would value our machines, then deduct that from the SRP of new machines.

This is a great deal for those just looking for a discount on a new laptop but a terrible deal for those that genuinely bought their notebook for it's upgradability.

 

[Barthelemy56]

If MSI need to provide those components to upgrade to pascal, you should not have to pay for them.

I do agree, we should not need to buy a new laptop as these laptops were advertised as upgradable. But there has been a **** up from MSI, they certainly recognized it.

Ultimately, they could do better than that but I perfectly understand as well that they cannot sell their new computers for nothing, they do not want to lose money here.

Buying my old GT72 for 1019 pounds (discount I have on the new GT72) is not bad for me.

Have a look online at the benefits in gaming of this new technology, there is very little, my 4th gen i7, ddr3 laptop, sata ssd beats all of the laptops with 6700hq, ddr4, pcie ssds with the same gpu in all benchmarks and get better fps. They are charging you extra for snake oil.

You are being unfair now, PCIe SSD is clearly beating SATA ssd in terms of speed(and lets not forget that SATA SSD wont see any improvement in the future, PCIE SSD yes), latest generation of processors are always a bit better than the previous ones and have some new features. I'm quite happy to have the G-sync function, it is clearly a big improvement, my old one was not G-sync capable.

Edit: How many ssds can the machine you are upgrading to raid, and how is the mux switch?

Yeah I heard the argument about the 4 SSDs in previous version of the GT72. Tbh, I always had only 1 ssd, never bought more so I'm fine with only 1 PCIe SSD that is as quick as a RAID of 4 SATA SSD. For the mux swich, I have not read too much about it, how it is on the new platform ? Same as before ? IT is fine with me if it is, I was always on the main graphic anyway, never changed to the integrated one.



Again, nothing against you huh, I understand the anger but I have to admit that what they are proposing to me is kind of fair in my own perspective.

 

[MiSJAH]

I do agree, we should not need to buy a new laptop as these laptops were advertised as upgradable. But there has been a **** up from MSI, they certainly recognized it.

Ultimately, they could do better than that but I perfectly understand as well that they cannot sell their new computers for nothing, they do not want to lose money here.

Alas, they should have considered that before advertising and charging a premium for MXM upgradability.

Buying my old GT72 for 1019 pounds (discount I have on the new GT72) is not bad for me.

Like I said before, if you were not going to upgrade the MXM cards, the trade in is a great way of getting a discount on a new machine.

You are being unfair now, PCIe SSD is clearly beating SATA ssd in terms of speed(and lets not forget that SATA SSD wont see any improvement in the future, PCIE SSD yes), latest generation of processors are always a bit better than the previous ones and have some new features.

Yes I agree that PCIe is faster than sata, and that the new I7's have some micro benefits over the older ones.

But these notebooks are sold as gaming machines, there are no benefits in gaming whether using the newer or old CPU or SSDs. Hardly unfair simply a statement of facts. (Feel free to fact check this statement, I did).

Yeah I heard the argument about the 4 SSDs in previous version of the GT72. Tbh, I always had only 1 ssd, never bought more so I'm fine with only 1 PCIe SSD that is as quick as a RAID of 4 SATA SSD. For the mux swich, I have not read too much about it, how it is on the new platform ? Same as before ? IT is fine with me if it is, I was always on the main graphic anyway, never changed to the integrated one.

This is not an argument, my GT72 has these specifications, I use them regurlarly, why should you or I lose these features (whether we use them or not) because MSI screwed up?

Again, nothing against you huh, I understand the anger but I have to admit that what they are proposing to me is kind of fair in my own perspective.

You misunderstand. I'm not angry. Just holding MSI to their word. Pointing out where they are lying and trying to mislead.

MSI have stated that the Trade-Upgrade program is based upon previous MXM upgrade cost, yet the emails they have sent out state that they are valuing our machines.

You see the contradiction? Companies with integrity do not try to mislead or tell lies.

No one should pay for new components that are not required because MSI screwed up, and if a company says a program is based upon a cost of a previous scheme, it is only reasonable for that program to be based on a previous scheme.

These are all simple matters.

 

[Axeboy]

Its good to see that someone is happy enough with the offer though.

 

[MiSJAH]

Its good to see that someone is happy enough with the offer though.

I disagree, all it does it make MSI think they can get away with this crap.

 

[Barthelemy56]

Alas, they should have considered that before advertising and charging a premium for MXM upgradability.

Did they charge a premium for this compatibility ?

I do believe that there is lots of false advertisment around and some are made on purpose. This one is an obvious mistake as when they did advertize this, they were obviously believing that it would be true.

There is much worse false advertising in my eyes...

Like I said before, if you were not going to upgrade the MXM cards, the trade in is a great way of getting a discount on a new machine.

I was thinking about upgrading to a new Pascal GPU, this was one of the attractive feature. It is not possible and somehow, MSI proposing to buy back my 2 years old 1699 poundscomputer fro 1019 pounds is kind of making up for the mistake.

It is not perfect, they could do better but it was a surprise as I saw the details of the trade-in in US and I was quite scared about how they would not offer a big discount in the UK

Yes I agree that PCIe is faster than sata, and that the new I7's have some micro benefits over the older ones.

But these notebooks are sold as gaming machines, there are no benefits in gaming whether using the newer or old CPU or SSDs. Hardly unfair simply a statement of facts. (Feel free to fact check this statement, I did).

I do not need to check this statement, I'm myself working in IT since years and I know what I'm talking about : CPU or SSD have impact on Gaming. You can be CPU limited in gaming, depends on the game and a SSD will greatly improve your loading time (when loading a map for example or loading anything that is stored on a storage componenet).

You are not fully wrong in the way that yes there is really few games where you will be limited by the older version I7-4720HQ that I have for now in my GT72. But if you think about the future, having a Skylake processor as opposed to a Haswell will at one point make a difference and it could happen sooner than later, depends on the games which will come out.

The devil are in the details and because of this, your statement is wrong, there is a difference, it will depend on what you are doing with your PC. Maybe you are only gaming with your PC, I'm doing a lot of other stuff with my PC (like video edition for example..Which can be CPU hungry...I could see some 20% gain in terms of power and time gain)

This is not an argument, my GT72 has these specifications, I use them regurlarly, why should you or I lose these features (whether we use them or not) because MSI screwed up?

You do not loose anything, 1 SSD PCIe will be as speedy as 4 SSD in RAID 0. Apart the storage overall capacity...and I think that the 4 SSD SATA were limited anyway, you could not go above a certain overall capacity as you will be to go higher soon with 1 SSD in PCIe.

Again a statement that is not resisting to the reality IMHO.

You misunderstand. I'm not angry. Just holding MSI to their word. Pointing out where they are lying and trying to mislead.

MSI have stated that the Trade-Upgrade program is based upon previous MXM upgrade cost, yet the emails they have sent out state that they are valuing our machines.

You see the contradiction? Companies with integrity do not try to mislead or tell lies.

No one should pay for new components that are not required because MSI screwed up, and if a company says a program is based upon a cost of a previous scheme, it is only reasonable for that program to be based on a previous scheme.

These are all simple matters.

OK fine for the principle, yes they ****ed up selling a PC saying it could be upgradeable, I do believe they did not do it on purpose, it was obvious that users would wait for them if they would not follow on the MXM upgrade.

I do not agree with your statement in bold, I do not recall having seen MSI saying that the trade-in program would follow the cost of the MXM upgrade..But I can be wrong about this.



My perspective overall is that I will pay 880 pounds for a computer that is working very well (basing my views on the use of my GT72 since 2 years), a computer that will perform largely twice better than my old one when it is about gaming, that has updated technologies and more fuure proof than my previous one.

At the end, I would have paid a minimum of 600 pounds for a MXM upgrade, maybe a bit less in the hypothetical sale of my 970m...Lets say I would have sell it 100 pounds. Cost of the MXM upgrade : 500 pounds.
I will pay 880 pounds, therefore 380 pounds (880 - 500) for a whole new computer, a G-sync screen (this is very nice), a slightly better processor, a slightly better SSD, a slightly better RAM (proof still to come about this but I'm not worried, DDR4 will be valuable at one point) a 2 years warranty and overall future proof computer.

I honestly think that I'm not doing such a bad deal at the end. I do not think that MSI is screwing me up on this one.

 

[MiSJAH]

What MSI said they would do:





What they actually did:




Cost of MSI manufactured MXM 1070:



Value of existing GTX 970M:



Max cost of upgrade if MSI had produced MXM cards for existing machines - £537.50

No matter how you look at the GT72VR it has fewer features than the GT72.

So MSI are charging you £342.50 for components that make little difference in gaming.

As you work in IT, what sized map do you need to load from a PCIe SSD for it to make a noticable difference from SATA SSD, and what is the loading time difference?

As for the I7 and DDR4, here's 3dmark's fire strike comparison: http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/9771654/fs/7098474

The 6700HQ is the number 1 result with the GPU, the 4720HQ (my laptop) is the 30th from best result with that CPU and GPU. I've included these results as firestrike has always been considered the gamer's benchmark.

So you are paying £342.50 over the cost of an actually MXM upgrade for immeasurably faster map load times and G-Sync.

I honestly think that I'm not doing such a bad deal at the end. I do not think that MSI is screwing me up on this one.

Do you still believe that?

(I actually beat the newer I7-6700HQ with DDR4 in every section and by over 200 points overall but did not validate online - http://i.imgur.com/99Yj2cY.jpg).

 

[tropicola]

Ive had my price about 838 discount I had 980m ill post later but basically goong to coat about 1k for a 1060!! Not happy ill post more details later

 

[tropicola]

So so looking at that I paid 1399

Need to pay another 950 to trade in for a 1060? Just wow...

How do you value the 1060 at 1799 when they seem to be available for around 1500.1600 with bonus freebies?

I feel im getting ripped off here

I signed up for a gfx upgrade not another 1k which is more than half my laptop?!?!

Msi are you mad? You can **** right off you are not getting a penny from me and youve just lost a customer.

Alao getting in touch with the retailer never purchasing from them either for support msi products and selling me this scam so they wont be happy with msi either

 

[Barthelemy56]

What MSI said they would do:





What they actually did:




Cost of MSI manufactured MXM 1070:



Value of existing GTX 970M:



Max cost of upgrade if MSI had produced MXM cards for existing machines - £537.50

No matter how you look at the GT72VR it has fewer features than the GT72.

So MSI are charging you £342.50 for components that make little difference in gaming.

As you work in IT, what sized map do you need to load from a PCIe SSD for it to make a noticable difference from SATA SSD, and what is the loading time difference?

As for the I7 and DDR4, here's 3dmark's fire strike comparison: http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/9771654/fs/7098474

The 6700HQ is the number 1 result with the GPU, the 4720HQ (my laptop) is the 30th from best result with that CPU and GPU. I've included these results as firestrike has always been considered the gamer's benchmark.

So you are paying £342.50 over the cost of an actually MXM upgrade for immeasurably faster map load times and G-Sync.



Do you still believe that?

(I actually beat the newer I7-6700HQ with DDR4 in every section and by over 200 points overall but did not validate online - http://i.imgur.com/99Yj2cY.jpg).

Yes I still do believe it. Again, I'm not only gaming with my PC and Skylake is overall more powerful and more future proof than Haswell, whatever you can think.

I would not look at your benchmark which is too specific and too dependent on your own system.

Here is a proper benchmark (and there is certainly a lot of other solid benchmark) :

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Haswell-vs-Skylake-S-i7-4790K-vs-i7-6700K-641/

In most situations, the i7 6700K should be anywhere from 1% to 10% faster than the i7 4790K. We saw some of the most significant performance improvements in Lightroom and Photoshop. Most of the Lightroom actions we tested saw a small 1.5-3% increase in performance, but the 15% increase in performance when exporting images is very significant. In Photoshop, some of the effects we tested saw even greater performance improvements - up to 16.7 percent! Even better, the move to DDR4 RAM means that you do not need to use the slower (for Photoshop at least) socket 2011 CPUs if you need more than 32GB of system RAM since the Skylake-S platform supports up to 64GB of RAM.

Overall, Skylake-S as a platform is very, very good. Most of the specification changes are pretty subtle (with the exception of the move to DDR4) but we were impressed with the lower power draw and temperature of the i7 6700K compared to the i7 4790K. Unless you are a professional Photoshop or Lightroom user, the performance improvements likely won't merit upgrading from Haswell to Skylake-S, but if you are in the market for a new system we see little reason to not use Skylake-S.

Better definitely, not hugely better but undoubetly better.

DDR4 is for now underused but will be usefull in the future, it has always been like this for RAM, when the new RAM is coming out, It takes time to deliver its full power.

For the loading time, make the calculation yourself, if you have 1 SATA SSD at 500MB/s and 1 PCIe SSD at 1000MB/s, it is twice quicker, as simple as that.

I'm also gaming and waiting 30 seconds instead of 15 seconds between 2 games makes a difference to me. You do not buy that sort of computer if you do not care about timing. I love the reactivity of a computer, I love my computer starting in 10 seconds and if it can do it in 5 seconds, it is even better.

What feature (s) there is not in the GT72VR that there is in the GT72 ?

Ha and Ho, I'm going from a non VR capable platform to a VR capable platform.


A last thing : You are showing me prices for some 970m MXM, I would be surprised if I was having more than 150 pounds for my 970m unfortunately, even more since the Pascal GPUs are around. Guys who can upgrade to the 9xx series will upgrade to a 980m which is just VR capable but not the 970m, no point, there will be extremely few clients for these ones unfortunately.


You are correct on the fact that MSI looks like saying that they were planning to have a trade-in program that would cost an equivalent of a MXM upgrade, fair enough and I understand that we can be frustrated or angry about it, it was wrong from them to tell this and at the end, would be great to read some sort of apologies for all this mess they have created, just acknowledge the mess and be fair with their users.

I feel their offer to me is fair

Anyway, I will stop here, I won't convince you and you won't convince me, we have to agree to disagree.

 

[Barthelemy56]

Ive had my price about 838 discount I had 980m ill post later but basically goong to coat about 1k for a 1060!! Not happy ill post more details later

In your case, yeah I would not be highly happy but you had your computer at a good price as well. thanks for posting this, it shows that they are basing their discount on the price you bought your computer at.

Not sure I would go for the trade in offer in your case and effectively, I understand that it looks unfair to you as going to a 1060 from a 980m is not that a huge leap forward.

The question is : is it fair to take in account the price you have bought it ?

I paid a premium as I wanted mine almost when it came out, I paid 1699 pounds for a GT72 wiht 970m and you paid 1399 for a GT72 with 980m.

Obviously, the value of your laptop is still higher than mine second hand today so it sounds unfair somehow. MSI is looking at things differently, they are offering discount based on what you paid at start.

 

[tropicola]

We were offered upgrade

Ill restate again

Price should be MXM Upgrade kit minus resale of gfx

The value of my laptop should ever enter this calculation

 

[Barthelemy56]

We were offered upgrade

Ill restate again

Price should be MXM Upgrade kit minus resale of gfx

The value of my laptop should ever enter this calculation

Yes Agreed, Ideally this is what MSI should do. Now it looks like they do not want to do this..So what is the plan ?

 

[tropicola]

The plan is **** you msi thats my plan at least, hopefully people will see this ******** and realise weve all been ****ed and not biy msi product again

Note if you dont feel ripped off you are being very silly mate they sold a product to you u wanted upgraded gfx, they provided instead overpriced ******** with parts I dnt need or want just to get a new gfx which they failed to deliver. I meam come on who uses suggested retail price? U know retailers dont sell at rrp or SRP they never go top end on a product maybe for first few... Also why should I be penalised for shopping around or getting a deal on my original price? I cant do this time if the onky use srp to Base calculation

They have broken advertising laws and you are happy with that?

 

[Trapeee]

Who are the emails coming from? Natalie? Not had my "offer" yet.

 

[tropicola]

Who are the emails coming from? Natalie? Not had my "offer" yet.

MSI notebook UK

Natalie is not available. Ajibear has also been told to not email customers.

So I paid

1399

should pay around £600ish for mxm upgrade for 1070m minus resale value of a 980m that I would have been able to sell, so anyway you look at it net cost to me around 300-400 quid, now I have to pay 1,000 and I only get a 1060 for that price?

with the added threat of the deadline, alongside another threat of "limited stock" so I might not even be able to choose my model. this isn't even the final price upon inspection they will give you a final price - which no doubt you will get screwed over again somehow....

I'm calling the retailer later to see what their views are on losing a customer due to msi's incompetence and lack of customer after sales support/care.

Sorry if I'm angry for you lot I'm just not very happy with this, I didn't want a 4k panel, I didn't want IPS I didn't want all this stuff that will add marginal performance

ALL I WANT IS A GRAPHICS UPGRADE AT THE RIGHT PRICE OF WHAT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN!!! IT'S NOT TO MUCH TO ASK

I WILL NEVER PURCHASE AN MSI PRODUCT AGAIN OR PURCHASE FROM SAVEONLAPTOPS OR BOX - both the retailer and msi have let me down here by screwing me over







at risk of getting banned or posts moderated, OVERCLOCKERS what are you doing for your customers? You trust MSI you sell their products and continue to do so, several of your customer have been miss-sold on upgrades of graphics cards (I didn't purchase myself) but how does it make you feel you potentially might lose customers because of this?

Have you received any credit card dispute/chargebacks over this issue? I'm considering speaking to my card provider seeing what options I have.

Will you promote MSI over other products? Will you favour MSI or do you just sell what ever you can get your hands on for the right margin?

Time to speak to more retailers I'm sure they won't be happy about this.

End of the day msi is the company, but we were also sold this product by retailers which have kept reasonably quiet about this

 

[ZXSpectrum]

WOW this is still going on? Looking at the offers I can see why people are annoyed. To be honest the most annoying thing would be the constant "we will let you know when we do" and "We are waiting for answers from HQ" BS.

Unfortunately if that's how MSI are going to treat their customers maybe its time to go back to the retailer and state they have sold an item under false pretenses. I know its not the retailers problem but they have to check the products they are selling are as described not just copy/paste the details from the manufacturers website to theirs. The retailer should be able to put more pressure on the manufacturer as holding payments or orders for new stock till it gets sorted or choosing not to sell their products anymore can be a great motivator.

 

[tropicola]

WOW this is still going on? Looking at the offers I can see why people are annoyed. To be honest the most annoying thing would be the constant "we will let you know when we do" and "We are waiting for answers from HQ" BS.

Unfortunately if that's how MSI are going to treat their customers maybe its time to go back to the retailer and state they have sold an item under false pretenses. I know its not the retailers problem but they have to check the products they are selling are as described not just copy/paste the details from the manufacturers website to theirs. The retailer should be able to put more pressure on the manufacturer as holding payments or orders for new stock till it gets sorted or choosing not to sell their products anymore can be a great motivator.

the retailers should look into this I agree, they need to know what they are selling to their customers. It was advertised on several sites upgradeability and if they sold to their customers based on that they should also be liable somehow. I'm not lawyer however so don't quote me.

I doubt retailers would be keen in challenging msi on this one, it could result in them getting no MSI products to sell or a lower profit margin. MSI sell well so I'm assuming most retailers (smaller ones) would be too scared to do this unless it gets some more publicity....

you watch if this gets on a news website or goes viral it would get a much better pricing for us.....


LOL edit;

ive checked the site I used and on some GT72 models they are still advertising graphics upgrades are available on 980m models to next gen? WOW. http://www.saveonlaptops.co.uk/system/prodimage.ashx?Id=1745886&maxwidth=963&blank=true this image is still on some GT72 models? how does the GT72s model differ can that support the 1080m?


seeing some USA offers also

I know my laptop is lower spec but same graphics as me and base model, however this guy pays like what £600ish after exchange rate to get a 1070? and I pay 1,000 for a 1060?

I repeat, MSI are you mad?

"I plan to use the upgrade. I have the GT72 2QE 1666 Dom Pro w 4gb 980m. The upgrade will cost me $700 to the GT72 VR Dom Pro w 1070 8 GB."

also some suggestions that "settlement deals have been done in the USA" after law suits threaten

quotes like



I've been keeping up with this thread on and off -- but I'm not going to read over 100 pages of stuff.

What's the collective conclusion? Take the deal or not? I understand the lawsuit has disappeared?

I have a GT80 009 with the 2x980m. According to the email I received from Ming Rong, they want $1400 to upgrade to the GT83 023 or $2400 to upgrade to the GT83 024.

Should I stay where I am, or shut up and take the "deal"? Will they haggle with me for the price?


It hasn't disappeared, but nothing will be shared about it on this forum. <---- settlement agreement gagging you mate?

 

[Axeboy]

How much is a 1070 laptop card anyways?

Hard to find info, the only one I can see is $1000 which seems nuts, before tax etc as well

 

[Trapeee]

So if Natalie isnt available and she has been dealing with my emails does that mean I wont get an email offer now? I dont entirely trust anyone at MSI to have forwarded those emails :s