DON'T BUY MSI THEY MIS-SOLD TOP SPEC GT SERIES LAPTOPS with MXM Graphics

[MiSJAH]

Good work.

Please share the email contacts with me/other customers, let's make our voices heard.

 

[MiSJAH]

I've also sent an email to the MSI CEO and referenced this thread more than a week ago, not a response from them, they couldn't are less if you ask me.

If you emailed Frank, I emailed him a while back. The email was forwarded to Natalie. She told me that Frank was MSI components and not connected with MSI notebooks. Not sure I believe her....

If anyone gets a response/offer please post it in this thread.

Cheers.

 

[MiSJAH]

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/...9TgJKbf0w+QEjqNudzJPQd1tceHrfdyMkzo0oz++lwgU=

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/04089303/filing-history

1st link returns an error:

<Error>
<Code>AccessDenied</Code>
<Message>Request has expired</Message>
<Expires>2016-12-08T16:25:30Z</Expires>
<ServerTime>2016-12-08T16:42:49Z</ServerTime>
<RequestId>603E79127294C657</RequestId>
<HostId>
YTWnIZ9XCdlVoMVDLhBSdAhWB/DwCB/dxN210pKXcITRHoJpY2HoVHTUhP0nBqO/WFspb+RYtXg=
</HostId>
</Error>


2nd link, is where I got Frank's name. Oddly he's a contact of mine on linkedin.

https://uk.linkedin.com/in/frank-chen-32482161

Managing Director
MSI Computer (UK) Ltd.
February 2010 – Present (6 years 11 months)United Kingdom

(All of the above is publicly available information).

 

[MiSJAH]

Yea hopefully we don't need a 300+ page forum thread like the USA to get some faster action.

I've been promised a price next week, but if I don't get it or it's not good enough then I think a few of us should join up and launch a join complaint to the relevant parties...

Also we perhaps need to try and make the maximum people aware of this issue, some owners are probably not aware they are getting ripped or even aware they are doing the trade in...

I just hate this idea of an "individual" offer, it should be a fixed price if you have model A then to upgrade to model B = X amount - that way, no one gets a better price (I'm assuming the more you contest/argue the better price you will get) however some consumers, especially british people don't complain enough to get what they are entitled too, sure they grumble but only to themselves usually....

The USA deal pretty much sucks when you compare it to the cost of upgrading via MXM.

Yeah, agreed the individual offer is a complete **** take. Existing GPU value = X new GPU value = Y, Y - X = price you pay. It's not even complicated, there's only 3 GPU's to upgrade from, and only 3 GPU's to upgrade to. Total amount of prices 9.

However, as already demonstrated by MSI's, specifically Loki/Neil's refusal to provide the information about the program when asked for it, suggests something nefarious is going on.

I wonder how long this will take before it starts to affect MB/GPU/All in one sales?

 

[MiSJAH]

MXM 1070 for Clevo laptops (made by MSI)



$750 (£715 inc VAT).

 

[MiSJAH]

I don't dispute that

My point is, someone must have asked the cost. Regardless of any claim of what they can do, they could say its any price so I would have expected someone/anyone would have asked that before buying something as expensive

To me, asking would make sense, my point is surely someone did

I mean it literally could be any price until someone asked

Kinda goes like this,

"Hi MSI, I've bought this great notebook. How much will the unreleased GPU's be when I come to upgrade?"

"Er.....we'll tell you when they are released".

Axeboy, if you can tell me how much a desktop Volta GTX 1180ti FE will be, I'd appreciate it.

 

[MiSJAH]

Ok, so MSI straight out lied to it's customers.

MSI UK Notebook published on it facebook page the UK Pascal Trade-Upgrade Program, claiming " is available at costs comparable to previous MXM upgrades."

So today some received their offers.....

"According to the data you provided to us, your discount amount will be £*,*** based on 2 evaluations as follows:
1. The original launch price of your on-hand machine GT72 ***UK is £*,***
2. Your invoice date is **/**/****, we can accept the machine as long as it’s within 2years warranty"

Absolutely nowhere near previous MXM upgrades costs whatsoever.





At least we know why Loki/Neil the MSI Rep on these forums has not given me the information in advance.


Hey Neil, you have something to add to this?

Edit: While I wait for my offer email, I am composing an email to the following;

Dimensional Fund Advisors LP
Robeco Institutional Asset Management BV
The Vanguard Group, Inc.
Norges Bank Investment Management
Yuanta Securities Investment Trust Co., Ltd.
Quoniam Asset Management GmbH
Mellon Capital Management Corp.
Jih Sun Securities Investment Trust Co., Ltd.
Capital Investment Trust Corp.
SSgA Funds Management, Inc

These are MSI institutional shareholders, I am planning on making them aware of the situation.

This thread has ~10,000 views, another thread on NBR has ~200,000 views. I wonder if they care how many lost sales this scam will cause? It's pretty obvious MSI as business don't care about it's customers, I wonder if they care about their investors.

 

[MiSJAH]

How did you get on with Trading Standards/Citizens Advice?

They said the situation is between the retailer and the customer. It would be down to the retailer to resolve with the manufacturer.

I would give kudos to MSI to trying to handle this themselves, however, they are not trying to handle/resolve the issue but turn a profit from it.

 

[MiSJAH]

Seems a bit crap of them to not help at all, I assumed this is exactly what they were there for

Agreed. I have no beef with OcUK, great team.

MSI has caused this problem, then tried to profit from rather than take the hit for their mess up.

They're are not listening to us, I hope they listen to their shareholders.

MSI, I am not going away. This is gathering momentum. Read just in this thread how many lost sales you have.

What do you want to achieve really, the best returns for share holders and the largest bonuses for staffers? I'll let you guess the long term effect of this screw up, whilst I make as many people/organisations aware as possible.

Or you could do the right thing by your customers and at least keep word on the latest announcement and make costs comparable with previous MXM upgrades.

 

[MiSJAH]

eh why is it down to the retailer?

MSI promised to deliver something, they can't so they should fix it correct?

It wasn't like the retailer promised to provide it without asking MSI first?

You buy from the retailer, so the customers 'contract' is with the retailer.

You can place a claim against the retailer, they are likely to offer a refund less a percentage then claim against the manufacturer.

However, proactive company get ahead of the curve in these situations to stop long term business problems. MSI is not one of these companies.

 

[MiSJAH]

Just so we are 100% clear, at no time have I or MSI refused to offer you or any one wishing to partake in the trade up programme details of what your offer will be.

10 days since he hasn't refused the details.......

 

[MiSJAH]

How does that relate to advertising standards?

I'm not sure but will check it out.

 

[MiSJAH]

Hello MISJAH, I can see that you continue your fight, kudos to you

I finally received the personalized trade-in offer from MSI.

From my perspective, it looks pretty honest but maybe I'm falling in the right bracket somehow. I would be ****ed off if I was not anymore in the 2 year warranty period, I think this is not very fair to take in account only the ones that are still in their 2 years warranty period as you can perfectly want to upgrade your graphic card after 2 years.


I bought my GT72 1699 pounds here on Overclockers more than 2 years ago (October 2014), quite basic config with 970m.

As I sent my request to them before the end of a period of 2 years (I think around September), they consider a discount for me of 1019 pounds against the sent in of my GT72, which is pretty fair, few chances I would have sold my laptop today for such a price second hand. As I want to buy a 1899 pounds GT72VR laptop to replace, it means that I will have to pay 880 pounds for the new laptop which is fair enough in my view.
The new laptop will have a far better graphic card, a newer processor, a PCIe SSD, a G-sync screen (mine did not)...

Overall, I cannot really complain in my case. Surely they could do better...or worse...

BTW, prices of the trade-in offer new laptops are VAT included ?

By pretty honest, you mean the amount they are charging you is a 'cost comparable with previous MXM upgrades? (cost of new MXM card less cost of existing MXM card), so the max anyone with a single GPU should be paying in the worst case valuation of cards is ~£800.

How much are they charging you to upgrade?

 

[MiSJAH]

They are charging me 880 pounds for a much better graphic card, a better processor, a G-sync screen, a PCIe SSD and an overall new laptop that will come with 2 years warranty, sounds pretty OK to me.

Again, I'm maybe kind of lucky because my laptop was a basic one and within just the limit of my 2 years warranty.

Honestly, I'm not sure at all I would have been able to sold a 970m MXM graphic cards second hand ... I would not have had a lot of quids against it. Yeah if you take all these costs separately, the cost of the upgrade would have been a bit lower if it was just upgrading the graphic with the thinking you would sold the old 970m at a decent price. But this is a bit ideal world. In reality, I would not have sold easily my 970m which is now outdated with the new Pascal GPU. and this lost overall is compensated by the fact that I will have new laptop with latest technologies. Again, I cannot see too much ground to complain..in my case.

Where I find MSI certainly unfair is to do this trade in program only on the warranty period, I think they should extend to all users, warranty or not, with proof of receipt in your name.

If MSI need to provide those components to upgrade to pascal, you should not have to pay for them.

Have a look online at the benefits in gaming of this new technology, there is very little, my 4th gen i7, ddr3 laptop, sata ssd beats all of the laptops with 6700hq, ddr4, pcie ssds with the same gpu in all benchmarks and get better fps. They are charging you extra for snake oil.

Edit: How many ssds can the machine you are upgrading to raid, and how is the mux switch?

MSI announced that this program will cost an amount comparable to previuos MXM upgrades, not that they would value our machines, then deduct that from the SRP of new machines.

This is a great deal for those just looking for a discount on a new laptop but a terrible deal for those that genuinely bought their notebook for it's upgradability.

 

[MiSJAH]

I do agree, we should not need to buy a new laptop as these laptops were advertised as upgradable. But there has been a **** up from MSI, they certainly recognized it.

Ultimately, they could do better than that but I perfectly understand as well that they cannot sell their new computers for nothing, they do not want to lose money here.

Alas, they should have considered that before advertising and charging a premium for MXM upgradability.

Buying my old GT72 for 1019 pounds (discount I have on the new GT72) is not bad for me.

Like I said before, if you were not going to upgrade the MXM cards, the trade in is a great way of getting a discount on a new machine.

You are being unfair now, PCIe SSD is clearly beating SATA ssd in terms of speed(and lets not forget that SATA SSD wont see any improvement in the future, PCIE SSD yes), latest generation of processors are always a bit better than the previous ones and have some new features.

Yes I agree that PCIe is faster than sata, and that the new I7's have some micro benefits over the older ones.

But these notebooks are sold as gaming machines, there are no benefits in gaming whether using the newer or old CPU or SSDs. Hardly unfair simply a statement of facts. (Feel free to fact check this statement, I did).

Yeah I heard the argument about the 4 SSDs in previous version of the GT72. Tbh, I always had only 1 ssd, never bought more so I'm fine with only 1 PCIe SSD that is as quick as a RAID of 4 SATA SSD. For the mux swich, I have not read too much about it, how it is on the new platform ? Same as before ? IT is fine with me if it is, I was always on the main graphic anyway, never changed to the integrated one.

This is not an argument, my GT72 has these specifications, I use them regurlarly, why should you or I lose these features (whether we use them or not) because MSI screwed up?

Again, nothing against you huh, I understand the anger but I have to admit that what they are proposing to me is kind of fair in my own perspective.

You misunderstand. I'm not angry. Just holding MSI to their word. Pointing out where they are lying and trying to mislead.

MSI have stated that the Trade-Upgrade program is based upon previous MXM upgrade cost, yet the emails they have sent out state that they are valuing our machines.

You see the contradiction? Companies with integrity do not try to mislead or tell lies.

No one should pay for new components that are not required because MSI screwed up, and if a company says a program is based upon a cost of a previous scheme, it is only reasonable for that program to be based on a previous scheme.

These are all simple matters.

 

[MiSJAH]

Its good to see that someone is happy enough with the offer though.

I disagree, all it does it make MSI think they can get away with this crap.

 

[MiSJAH]

What MSI said they would do:





What they actually did:




Cost of MSI manufactured MXM 1070:



Value of existing GTX 970M:



Max cost of upgrade if MSI had produced MXM cards for existing machines - £537.50

No matter how you look at the GT72VR it has fewer features than the GT72.

So MSI are charging you £342.50 for components that make little difference in gaming.

As you work in IT, what sized map do you need to load from a PCIe SSD for it to make a noticable difference from SATA SSD, and what is the loading time difference?

As for the I7 and DDR4, here's 3dmark's fire strike comparison: http://www.3dmark.com/compare/fs/9771654/fs/7098474

The 6700HQ is the number 1 result with the GPU, the 4720HQ (my laptop) is the 30th from best result with that CPU and GPU. I've included these results as firestrike has always been considered the gamer's benchmark.

So you are paying £342.50 over the cost of an actually MXM upgrade for immeasurably faster map load times and G-Sync.

I honestly think that I'm not doing such a bad deal at the end. I do not think that MSI is screwing me up on this one.

Do you still believe that?

(I actually beat the newer I7-6700HQ with DDR4 in every section and by over 200 points overall but did not validate online - http://i.imgur.com/99Yj2cY.jpg).

 

[MiSJAH]

How much is a 1070 laptop card anyways?

Hard to find info, the only one I can see is $1000 which seems nuts, before tax etc as well

US$750 to purchase, see image on previous page. (I accept that's Clevo MXM 1070, yet manufactured by MSI so MSI is already making a profit on that card). In the UK we normally pay £ on the $ so ~£750.

 

[MiSJAH]

Here is a proper benchmark (and there is certainly a lot of other solid benchmark) :

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Haswell-vs-Skylake-S-i7-4790K-vs-i7-6700K-641/

Why is comparing desktop processors in a thread about notebook processors a proper benchmark? My comparison used my actual existing CPU and the equivalent 6th gen CPU. How about you provide an actual benchmark using the CPU's in question, you know like I did?

DDR4 is for now underused but will be usefull in the future, it has always been like this for RAM, when the new RAM is coming out, It takes time to deliver its full power.

Hypothetically, but let's work with actual facts, what are the benefits now in a notebook sold for gaming?

For the loading time, make the calculation yourself, if you have 1 SATA SSD at 500MB/s and 1 PCIe SSD at 1000MB/s, it is twice quicker, as simple as that.

We both know why you are not providing figures

I'm also gaming and waiting 30 seconds instead of 15 seconds between 2 games makes a difference to me. You do not buy that sort of computer if you do not care about timing. I love the reactivity of a computer, I love my computer starting in 10 seconds and if it can do it in 5 seconds, it is even better.

Please demonstrate a game where PCIe is twice as quick to load any aspect of a game? PCIe and NVME do not improve boot times, this has been demonstrated already.

What feature (s) there is not in the GT72VR that there is in the GT72 ?

My God! No MUX, No RAiD. (RAiD is not just about performance).

Ha and Ho, I'm going from a non VR capable platform to a VR capable platform.

Yes, and MSI produce a notebook with matching features to the GT72 that is VR capable it's called the GT73VR, the VR aspect is down to the GPU nothing else.

A last thing : You are showing me prices for some 970m MXM, I would be surprised if I was having more than 150 pounds for my 970m unfortunately, even more since the Pascal GPUs are around. Guys who can upgrade to the 9xx series will upgrade to a 980m which is just VR capable but not the 970m, no point, there will be extremely few clients for these ones unfortunately.

So I showed the last 5 completed sales just on ebay, a number of them after Pascal had been released. I worked out the costs on the lowest sale value, not even an average. So you are just guessing a value to attribute to your MXM 970M whereas I am using the most recent sold values.

I feel their offer to me is fair

Anyway, I will stop here, I won't convince you and you won't convince me, we have to agree to disagree.

Denial is a powerful thing, you are accepting the scam and I wish you luck. If you read the other comments in this thread you will see you are alone thinking this is a 'fair offer'.

Misjah

What do you think of my supposed deal?

We have the same notebook.

It's an insult, not a deal.

MSI will not answer my emails any longer.

I asked which specific MXM upgrade are the costs or the program comparable to. I still await an answer.

As we can see from the offers being made, they are simple valuing our notebooks and offering a discount. This is not what they said they would do.

This is why this is a scam.

Oh how mature, MSI UK Notebook has blocked me being able to post on their facebook page. Edit: And deleting comments. Something to hide MSI?

If anyone would like to post on that page asking them why......

Andrew Borland.

Thanks.

 

[MiSJAH]

Neil agreed to a call at 6pm let u know

Would you be kind enough to ask Neil to specify which previous MXM upgrade they are referring to in the announcement "
UK Pascal Trade-Upgrade Program" that the costs of this program are comparable to?

Cheers.