Doom Vulkan vs Open GL performance

[meldarthx]

^^ At the very least, assuming for sake of argument that nVidia "does" ASync it is far more complicated to get it work than on AMD where you can relatively easily throw it at it indiscriminately without encountering potential performance issues. Worth waiting a bit to see what they can/can't do with Doom and ASync on nVidia before jumping to conclusions.

Meh its safe to assume Nvidia will lie about it - until they are caught; which looks like again they have been......ID said there is no async with 10 series from NVidia; we know there still no magic async driver for Maxwell......*coughs again no dx 12 driver for Fermi as promised*

Its not like Nvidia actually says anything you can trust - specially when it comes to DX 12.....

 

[SiDeards73]

The greatest trick the Nvidia Devil ever pulled was convincing the world that A-Sync in Pascal did exist he did not exist.

 

[shankly1985]

Tell Me Lies, Tell Me Sweet Little Lies

 

[Rroff]

Meh its safe to assume Nvidia will lie about it - until they are caught; which looks like again they have been......ID said there is no async with 10 series from NVidia; we know there still no magic async driver for Maxwell......*coughs again no dx 12 driver for Fermi as promised*

Its not like Nvidia actually says anything you can trust - specially when it comes to DX 12.....

Be careful how you interpret "Currently asynchronous compute is only supported on AMD GPUs and requires DOOM Vulkan supported drivers to run. We are working with NVIDIA to enable asynchronous compute in Vulkan on NVIDIA GPUs. We hope to have an update soon."

They are talking about only supported in Doom not that the feature is only supported on AMD hardware - AMD's ASync is a lot more tolerant without requiring the same hands on optimisation nVidia requires hence the delay. (Otherwise id would have come straight out and said ASync ain't happening for nVidia users - they aren't ones to pull punches when it comes to outing insufficient support from GPU vendors).

 

[SiDeards73]

Be careful how you interpret "Currently asynchronous compute is only supported on AMD GPUs and requires DOOM Vulkan supported drivers to run. We are working with NVIDIA to enable asynchronous compute in Vulkan on NVIDIA GPUs. We hope to have an update soon."

They are talking about only supported in Doom not that the feature is only supported on AMD hardware - AMD's ASync is a lot more tolerant without requiring the same hands on optimisation nVidia requires hence the delay.

Probably because AMD's solution is actually hardware based, where Nvidias is not?

 

[KillBoY_UK]

sigh...

 

[TheRealDeal]

I'd be careful comparing the 780 numbers you see in the average 780 benchmark - which more often than not are at ~954MHz actual boost clocks on A1 cards - against my 780 - with the lowest GPU offset I can actually set in overclocking tools I get this:



My out the box boost gives 17.8% higher performance and the lowest I can go is still at around 6% higher clocks than the cards those benchmarks are usually running :| and my card still has around 10% in the tank for overclocking compared to the image I posted just now in comparison to the 480.



I can't see Maxwell doing well for DX12 types games ever - when it comes to ASync the architecture is only ever going to compare to 1+1 in a GCN format with a little bit of clockspeed advantage - even Pascal realistically is only the equivalent of 1+2 but with a big clock speed advantage at the moment.

Once we are on DX12/Vulkan proper developers are going to be targeting the 1070, 1080, future nVidia big GPUs which aren't that far off and AMD's Vega, etc. based GPUs whether you are talking 290(X), 970, 980 even to a degree the 480 and 980ti they are going to have to make sacrifices and won't be upto running max settings at good performance - its the way it has always been.

EDIT: My point being IMO people playing the latest games well into 2017/2018 with a 980, etc. and expecting to run higher settings with good performance are expecting a bit much and while the equivalent AMD cards may or may not do a bit better it won't be better enough to offset the need for a newer card to do the games justice.

I diasgree. What is in the Ps4/Xbone is the target. Even Polaris which is similar to Tonga and is supposed to be in the new Playstation. Hawaii is still relevant while Gk100 is aging badly. Any how look at recent reviews and new games to see what's happening.

 

[Rroff]

Probably because AMD's solution is actually hardware based, where Nvidias is not?

One complication is the difference between Maxwell and Pascal - with GCN you can use very similar approaches over their entire architecture range.

With Maxwell you are very limited in terms of what you can do once a task is done - often requiring context switching which is very costly - but using the same approach on Maxwell that gets the best results there would be inefficient on Pascal as you aren't utilising its ability to fill up some empty spaces - Pascal can fold more work in behind the graphics queue once it has done its job as it becomes available which Maxwell can't do at all as well as the pre-emption differences.

 

[Rroff]

I diasgree. What is in the Ps4/Xbone is the target. Even Polaris which is similar to Tonga and is supposed to be in the new Playstation. Hawaii is still relevant while Gk100 is aging badly. Any how look at recent reviews and new games to see what's happening.

I don't really get your point - I never bought the 780 with any intention of using it for games in 2016 let alone 2017 or 2018 - if it wasn't for getting a G-Sync panel I'd have replaced it before now - but with G-Sync lower framerates are playable than traditional.

Once newer games are out that seriously trouble the cards I have currently I'll be onto the 1080ti or whatever and you are quite welcome to stick with your 290.

 

[Gregster]

Is anyone on NVidia suffering with poor performance out of interest?

 

[Rroff]

Is anyone on NVidia suffering with poor performance out of interest?

In Vulkan? doesn't play nice on my 780, 970 doesn't seem to be doing anything different but some people are seeing slowdowns like I see on the 780 on their Maxwell cards as well.

 

[Greebo]

Meh its safe to assume Nvidia will lie about it - until they are caught; which looks like again they have been......ID said there is no async with 10 series from NVidia; we know there still no magic async driver for Maxwell......*coughs again no dx 12 driver for Fermi as promised*

Its not like Nvidia actually says anything you can trust - specially when it comes to DX 12.....

Thing is we all know Nvidia has taken a totally different route to Async than AMD and some would say its isnt proper Async.

As and when they get their Async driver sorted, I doubt there will be anything like the gains that AMD get with their cards.

Sadly Despite the fact that AMD get 40 to 60% from Async Vulkan, they dont have a powerful card as a starting point and were way behind Nvidia.

Now if AMD dropped a $300 490 tomorrow which matched the 1070 roughly in dx11, it would destroy a 1080 in Vulkan in doom.

So Nvidia may well be using brute force (again) to win the day but they will have still wont he day even in dx12 vulkan.

However, AMD will have the bang for buck crown by a huge margin. If I could be sure of good support of vulkan coming in most games, I would send my unopened 1080 back and skip upgrading for now as in doom, the gain I;m going to get form my £180 290x to a £600 1080 just isnt worth it.

In dx 11 and normal dx12 when I pre-ordered it I was looking at a card which would give me at least and normally slightly better performance than my two 290x in xfire when xfire waorks perfectly and probably a 60% gain in all the games where xfire doesnt work (which is a lot)

Now that gain even even in games when xfire doesnt work is down to 20-30% and when xfire does work the 290s are faster, that £600 isnt looking like good money.

 

[Dave2150]

Is anyone on NVidia suffering with poor performance out of interest?

I get more FPS and smoother gameplay using OpenGL on my 1070. Vulkan is obviously completly playable, but not as good performance wise as openGL, due to Async being disabled for NVIDIA currently.

Once NVIDIA rollout the updated drivers for doom Vulkan, I expect Vulkan to provide performance increases for Pascal (not maxwell) cards also.

 

[Griffildur]

Is anyone on NVidia suffering with poor performance out of interest?

on the contrary, but I find this thread extremely entertaining, the whole world has come crushing down apparently.

Even more entertaining is to see some reactions of some people who finally see what it's like to actual play a game at a decent quality and fps. Next imagine what's it like at a real resolution on a great monitor. But hey, let's just bash everything and everyone and spell doom. Pardon the pun!

 

[Gregster]

I think it is great that AMD have got some real good gains (genuinely) but reading this thread, you would think NVidia were really struggling but doing some googling, not so. Some in this thread like Si and Shankly need to step back a bit and look at what they are coming across like. The game is sweet though and good call on buying it. RX480 is doing very well I see and nice one

 

[Griffildur]

I think it is great that AMD have got some real good gains (genuinely) but reading this thread, you would think NVidia were really struggling but doing some googling, not so. Some in this thread like Si and Shankly need to step back a bit and look at what they are coming across like. The game is sweet though and good call on buying it. RX480 is doing very well I see and nice one

well said sir.

It is very easy to forget that at the end of the day no one should care how much others are paying or what cards are buying. Cards are for enjoying stuff, not constantly bashing other people about their choice. It's great that AMD have a few good things to show and I hope they continue to do that as it will push Nvidia as well. Competition is good and will drive prices down which is something everyone wants.

Not everyone is on a budget and not everyone cares to buy whichever product offers the better price / performance ratio. Some people just want the very best and that's ok too.

 

[SiDeards73]

I think it is great that AMD have got some real good gains (genuinely) but reading this thread, you would think NVidia were really struggling but doing some googling, not so. Some in this thread like Si and Shankly need to step back a bit and look at what they are coming across like. The game is sweet though and good call on buying it. RX480 is doing very well I see and nice one

Greg, im merely amused by the fact there seems to be all these difficulties getting A-Sync running on Nvidia hardware but not on AMD, even you have to admit something fishy is going on with Nvidia and A-Sync.

As for what people pay for cards, i couldnt give a monkeys, i intend to buy 2 of the big Vega when they come, and i dont think they will be cheap for a minute, i have £2k set aside for them, recently upgraded my monitor in preperation for the Vega cards

 

[Gregster]

well said sir.

It is very easy to forget that at the end of the day no one should care how much others are paying or what cards are buying. Cards are for enjoying stuff, not constantly bashing other people about their choice. It's great that AMD have a few good things to show and I hope they continue to do that as it will push Nvidia as well. Competition is good and will drive prices down which is something everyone wants.

Not everyone is on a budget and not everyone cares to buy whichever product offers the better price / performance ratio. Some people just want the very best and that's ok too.

Agreed Griff and I couldn't care less what people are using, so long as they have a good experience and trouble free. I love to see new techs and my small experience with Vulkan is impressed. Gains for me over OGL as well and no stuttering or issues in my playtime. Damn this game looks and plays good and a big fat hand thumbs up to ID and Bethesda on that.

@ Si

Here is my recording of Vulkan. Got to love ShadowPlay - Just hit record and off it went, no fuss or bother. Super silky smooth as well and all maxed out

Will need to finish encoding and will switch to 1440P (eventually) but I need sleep from working all night

Does that look fishy at all? That is with Nightmare settings (not just Ultra) and everything maxed out. It really does run well.

 

[Griffildur]

Agreed Griff and I couldn't care less what people are using, so long as they have a good experience and trouble free. I love to see new techs and my small experience with Vulkan is impressed. Gains for me over OGL as well and no stuttering or issues in my playtime. Damn this game looks and plays good and a big fat hand thumbs up to ID and Bethesda on that.

hats off to ID Software ( these guys are like the parents of anything 3D ) and I was surprised to see they're still around. Thought they disappeared eons ago.

 

[BluD]

Damn that looks cool, does it run with multiple GPUs?