Dune (2020) - Denis Villeneuve

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I enjoyed the film but felt a little under whelmed. There was a lot of cinematic eye candy with some substance was lost. I feel it would have worked better either releasing part 1 and 2 together, or as a series like Foundation (but with all episodes of the first part released at once). It needed that to really draw you into the empire and flesh out the story.

The visuals reminded me of 'Raised by Wolves' so whilst nice nothing really new there.

One of the problems I had with it was that I never really felt any sense of threat, danger or dread with the main characters. They came across pretty lifeless.

I also thought Jessica was a bit pointless in this version. I did see much strength of character or anything else from her. At times she only looked about 5-6 years older than Paul too.

Such a long wait for the next instalment. I'm not going to watch the 1984 film again, I've seen it too many times. I've never seen the mini-series though.
 
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Bit underwhelmed after watching this.

Visually very impressive, nowhere near Bladerunner 2049 levels though, nor was the soundtrack.

I think it's the longest movie I've ever watched, where not much actually happened.

And I'm surprised Zendaya is so prominent in all the marketing, she barely did/said anything!
 
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I loved it.. but I go for entertainment not analysis.

Better than the SF Channels 2000-ish mini series which I thought was much better than Lynch's Dune... Best Dune so far for me

Looking fwd to Part 2 but probably more to seeing Dune Messiah get made....
 
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DV has his eyes on eventually making Messiah...

Villeneuve also says he’s keen to make bigger movies over the next few years, with no plans for smaller “Prisoners” or “Enemy” style films until he gets a bit older:

“If things go well with ‘Part Two,’ I could foresee the idea of maybe doing … ‘Dune: Messiah.’ That would make sense to me. After that, I think that I will make some other movies – let’s call them big movies, regarding their ambition and scope. And later on, when I’m too tired to do that, I will go back to some smaller projects. But for now, I have the energy to do this.”

https://www.darkhorizons.com/dune-part-two-already-moving-swiftly/
 
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Funny but I was thinking of him particularly.... Much better than Lynch Dune Duncan

Liked the Thopters too and generally the visuals were good

Bene Gesserit were a little "light" for me tho
 
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I'm thinking about going back to the Cinema to see it again, but in 4DX. First time in decades I've considered going to see a film in the cinema more than once.
 
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I noticed that a Braun Oral-B electric toothbrush makes a good substitute if your resident Sardaukar chanting man has taken the day off. Try it tonight when you brush your teeth.
 
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I noticed that a Braun Oral-B electric toothbrush makes a good substitute if your resident Sardaukar chanting man has taken the day off. Try it tonight when you brush your teeth.

Hah I've been doing that for years, I did giggle a bit when I saw that scene... But not for long, it was so atmospheric and there was so much to try and take in. I genuinely thought Dune was unfilmable until now, I can't wait for part 2.
 
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Few more questions

Do the other houses learn of the betrayal of the emperor and Baron? Does mohiam? If so, was he asked about this?

I understand that BG didn't want a male KH, why did mohiam want him spared with Jessica?

Does Paul have any dialogue with Baron?

How did they know liet 'betrayed' the emperor? In the movie, was she about to summon a worm to ride before being stabbed?

How did the fremen come to know of the prophecy? Is that what the BG instilled throughout the years?
 
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Few more questions

Do the other houses learn of the betrayal of the emperor and Baron? Does mohiam? If so, was he asked about this?

I understand that BG didn't want a male KH, why did mohiam want him spared with Jessica?

Does Paul have any dialogue with Baron?

How did they know liet 'betrayed' the emperor? In the movie, was she about to summon a worm to ride before being stabbed?

How did the fremen come to know of the prophecy? Is that what the BG instilled throughout the years?
From memory the other houses do later on, and mohiam was almost certainly aware of roughly what was coming from the outset, the BG are very much into finding out others secrets, if just to make sure that the great houses and imperial family don't get too much of a chance to get in the way of their plans.

Because the blood line is still useful, the BG have spent millennia at that point trying to get just the right blood line and Jessica with an Attraides was almost at the end of it, and whilst they might have other options there was no other bloodline that was that close, and even if Paul wasn't what they wanted they don't like to waste potentially useful bloodlines/tools - there is another faction that haven't really been introduced in the film who are in some ways similar to the BG, but far more willing to take risks and both more open and more secretive about what they do. The creature you see in the throne room (I think it was) was one of their experiments that they offer as tools/toys the powerful (and the foolish don't realise they're likely spying/dangerous regardless of how stupid they seem).

That wasn't covered in the book, but I'd imagine they've been spying on her, and yes, she was, you see another fremem do it later.

Yes that's basically is, the BG seed planets with prophecies so that if/when needed reverend mothers can use them to either save a BG plan, or to save themselves if they've got important information/bloodlines.

I really enjoyed the film but it's really annoying that the second part isn't going to be out for a fairly long time as it means so many of the questions will not be answered.
It's possibly worth picking up the book as the film altered things a bit for pacing/to avoid having long speeches explaining stuff (I suspect a lot of that might be covered in the second film) and keep things moving, as the book is a big chonker at something like 800 pages at a time when most sci-fi books were ~200 pages.
There are a couple of audio book versions including one that has what looks like a fairly large cast rather than a single narrator on Audible so if you're interested but don't necessarily want to sit and read that's an option:)
I'm considering rereading it, as it's been about 12 years since I last read them going by my notes so it's been a while (I have a note on my computer with most of the books I've read since just before getting an ereader).

as I say this is from memory at ~3am in the morning for a book i've not read in years :)
 
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I really enjoyed the film but it's really annoying that the second part isn't going to be out for a fairly long time as it means so many of the questions will not be answered.

Firmly at the feet of WB who moved the goalposts on DV. Initially promising him he could make both movies back to back, then changing this to 'you get part 2 if the first makes money'.

I feel as though for DV this could be the equivalent of Nolans Dark Knight free cheque with WB, after the success of TDK WB essentially gave Nolan free run to make anything he wanted.
 
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Few more questions

Do the other houses learn of the betrayal of the emperor and Baron? Does mohiam? If so, was he asked about this?

No, but we don't really see much of the other houses. It would be kept secret as if the Emperor can try and destroy House Attredies, they could do it to any House, which would lead them all to band together against the Emperor. The Bene Gesserit know about it (they know about everything), and tacitly approve of it as they can still use the bloodlines, but above all they don't want the flow of Spice to stop, and they want to keep the status quo (where they have a lot of power), at least until the get their own Kwizatz Haderach.

I understand that BG didn't want a male KH, why did mohiam want him spared with Jessica?

They do want a male Kwizatz Haderach. Only a male can become a Kwizatz Haderach, but the Bene Gesserit want one completely under their control. The Bene Gesserit have doubts in the beginning that Paul is the Kwizatz Haderach (he may be one of the many failed Kwizatz Haderachs), as he is a generation early, and they hope that they can still access the bloodlines to breed their own, or maybe even control Paul as their own superbeing.

Does Paul have any dialogue with Baron?

I don't think they ever do talk face to face. I can't remember if they have any dialogue after Paul takes the water of life and accesses the genetic memories and personalities of his ancestors, as Vladimir Harkonnen is Paul's maternal grandfather.

Alia certainly has a lot of conversations with Baron Harkonnen's personality in Book 3

How did they know liet 'betrayed' the emperor? In the movie, was she about to summon a worm to ride before being stabbed?

Keynes goes native. In the book, he's Chani's father, and walks a fine line between being part of a Fremen tribe, and doing his job for the Emperor (while secretly working in the Fremen's best interests). IIRC, the Harkonnen simply decide he can't be trusted due to his split loyalites, and how he won't give them the answers they want regarding the fate of Paul and Jessica, and the true facts about the Fremen. Keynes counts on his being a direct apointee of the Empire to protect him, but the Harkonnen arrange for an "accident" that means his body is lost to the desert and worms.

How did the fremen come to know of the prophecy? Is that what the BG instilled throughout the years?

You've got to understand how humanity has spread across the stars in the first place. There have been many diaspora in the the thousands of years before the Butlerian Jihad (that banned "thinking machines"). This allowed humanity to spread to the stars before the discovery of Spice and the founding of the Spacing Guild. Before the Spacing Guild was formed and the Butlerian Jihad was enacted, people use machines to travel to stars, and now they use the Spice mutated Navigators of the Spacing Guild.

In those first and many diasporas, the Bene Gesserit planted the seed of their religion, many versions of their stories and beliefs. These belief systems were kept whole by Bene Gesserit Mothers being embedded in the native tribes and peoples (rather like missionaries or the priest of a diocese). This allows Bene Gesserit to turn up and portray themselves as mythical or messianic figures in order to protect themselves and control the people they meet. It's a work of tens of thousands of years. This is what happens when Jessica and Paul turn up in the desert after escaping the Harkonnen attack. By saying the right things and acting the right way, the Fremen understand instantly that Jessica is Bene Gesserit with powers and skills (and soon a Reverend Mother), and that Paul is the messiah they've been praying for generations would arrive to lead them to paradise.

It's as if someone turned up turning water into wine, feeding thousands with a few fish and loaves, making the crippled walk and the blind see. You'd understand culturally who he is, especially if you're a very religious people living in a very harsh environment, and seeing the embodiment of your god Shi'Halud on a regular basis. You'd know he's a messiah, and if you believe that, then you'd believe it's your god-given destiny to follow his Jihad against the evil Harkonnen and Emperor to rule the galaxy and bring a paradise to your people that have endured so much to get to the point where their messiah arrives to bring them to a heaven of their own on Arrakis.

Of course, this isn't just a confidence trick on behalf of Jessica and Paul using the safety nets seeded by the Bene Gesserit thousands of years before. Paul actually is the Fremen/Bene Gesserit messiah, forced by breeding and training to the point where the spice-laden environment and his decision to take the water of life to aid his survival is the final step to making him the Kwizatz Haderach.
 
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