Plus a fiesta ST most weight only around 1100kgs
Put that fiesta ST engine in your BMW 5 series and see how many mpg it would do...
Ecoboost / Ecoflex engines
- Thread starter ultralaser
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Put that fiesta ST engine in your BMW 5 series and see how many mpg it would do...
That's very good mpg for a quick petrol car imo how anyone can say it's poor is ridiculous.
Take the 15year old mk1 Focus for example In the most popular 1.6 100bhp variant they only ever seen about 34mpg on average and your getting 40 from a 180bhp that is heavier and far quicker to 60!
Most diesel cars on average only hit between 40-50mpg in real world driving and they face far more expensive bills than the petrol versions.
The 1.6 ecoboost is an excellent engine it's just sad that so few people bought one
Downsizing engines will stop in a couple of years or so, and manufacturers will have to go back to larger engines and N/A engines as real world emissions testing becomes the norm.
Instead of lab based fuel emissions testing, all regulatory testing will have to be done in real world situations, subjecting new vehicles to more realistic real-world NOx tests starts from later this year, then all vehicles sold in Europe will need to be compliant by 2019. A new global standard for real-world testing of fuel economy, NOx and CO2 output will reportedly come into force from 2021.
Although no manufacturers have yet gone on record about their future engine plans, from personally talking to various power train engineers from various manufactures such as Renault, GM, and Volkswagen, all are saying that they are planning to scrap or upsize their smallest petrol and diesel engines, within 2 to 3 years.
Certainly Alain Raposo, head of powertrain development at Renault-Nissan, confirmed “The techniques we’ve used to reduce engine capacities will no longer allow us to meet emissions standards. We’re reaching the limits of downsizing.”
Instead of lab based fuel emissions testing, all regulatory testing will have to be done in real world situations, subjecting new vehicles to more realistic real-world NOx tests starts from later this year, then all vehicles sold in Europe will need to be compliant by 2019. A new global standard for real-world testing of fuel economy, NOx and CO2 output will reportedly come into force from 2021.
Although no manufacturers have yet gone on record about their future engine plans, from personally talking to various power train engineers from various manufactures such as Renault, GM, and Volkswagen, all are saying that they are planning to scrap or upsize their smallest petrol and diesel engines, within 2 to 3 years.
Certainly Alain Raposo, head of powertrain development at Renault-Nissan, confirmed “The techniques we’ve used to reduce engine capacities will no longer allow us to meet emissions standards. We’re reaching the limits of downsizing.”
Soldato
Interesting! I wonder as well if PF and adblue type systems will then have to be integrated into the smaller turbo petrols? I have read VW will be including particulate filters in their petrol engines.
I find that rather hard to believe, even tiny city cars and diesels don't get that sort of economy from town driving. 52mpg from a 1.4 Focus might be possible on long motorway trips sticking to 60mph, but not around town.
Not really fussed if you believe it or not to be honest.
Yea, they will figure out that small turbo engines aren't as clean as they make out. They are much worse than n/a engines when your doing anything other than just coasting along. If tests change to reflect real world driving, suddenly we will find the good ol' larger N/A engines are actually quite clean.
Not a bad thing though. I prefer a good n/a engine over a turbo
Yea so expect even more reliability issues with them in future :/
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Surely the actual testing will still be lab based, but the loading, speeds, acceleration etc will be more representative of real world driving. If it is truly tested on real roads, then no two test runs will ever be the same, and so the figures meaningless.
Last months Evo had an article (in discussion with Mazda IIRC) where they talked about 'right sizing' an engine as the way for the future.
NO the test is moving out of the lab and is being entirely road based.
The testing will be conducted on proving grounds, not open public roads, but on the tracks that represent real roads, a set route around a set of tracks, driven to a set schedule, so that it is repeatable, and the emissions equipment will be taken along on the car as it is driven around the tracks.
Google PEMS, Portable Emission Testing Systems.
We have been testing the equipment and schedules here at Millbrook for a few years now, it is as repeatable as the labs testing is.
Just to clarify, the New European Driving Cycle (NEDC) will be replaced across Europe, including the UK, in September 2017 by the Worldwide harmonised Light vehicles Test Procedure (WLTP).
This will still be entirely lab based, although, hopefully, many of the loopholes from before will be cut out. This test is far stricter and harsher, involving higher speeds, and higher accelerations.
Real world PEMS testing will be done alongside, although dependent upon manufacturers wish to or not, to compare and correlate.
Then in theory, although yet to be agreed, real world testing with PEMS will take over from lab testing from around 2025 onward depending upon agreements.
This will still be entirely lab based, although, hopefully, many of the loopholes from before will be cut out. This test is far stricter and harsher, involving higher speeds, and higher accelerations.
Real world PEMS testing will be done alongside, although dependent upon manufacturers wish to or not, to compare and correlate.
Then in theory, although yet to be agreed, real world testing with PEMS will take over from lab testing from around 2025 onward depending upon agreements.
Soldato
I was gonna say before your last post that WLTP wasnt actual road based testing.
Soldato
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interesting, i've always held that the size of the engine isn't as important as it's relationship to the rest of the car, and that a big n/a engine (or at least lower boost turbo engines) have a more useful power band and require less in the way of hammering them to get them to move when you apply real world scenarios (and more importantly someone driving who isn't going to be doing the driving miss daisy style required to get the higher effeciency/low emissions).
and thats before we get into the whole life cycle aspect of things that surely an unstressed n/a engine in a well built car is going to last far longer, and therefore not require replacing, it costs co2 to make cars too, so surely keeping a car on the road for as long as possible is going to be better than treating them as disposable and chucking them after 150k when the turbo blows.
Soldato
Doesn't sound normal, I get about 45-47 from a 1.0 140 fiesta at the same speed.
Won't we just see the turbo being replaced by a hybrid motor to get around this? I imagine that even a simple hybrid system like Hondas IMA would be of a decent benefit in giving a small engine NA car a bit of extra shove when needed.
Soldato
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possibly, my vote is for more cars like the vauxhall ampera- range extenders where the daily trudge is done purely on electric but there's a good ol' ic engine there for when range is needed.
it makes sense, engines can be made much lighter and more efficient when you only need one setting for rpm, things like turbo's etc and much of engines inefficiency come from the need to rev up and down to make a drivable car.
if you look at the theoretical efficiency for internal combustion engines 2 things become immediately apparent- first is that efficiency is linked directly to compression ratio, hence the fuel economy of diesels, and the other is that in terms of the amount of energy extracted per litre of fuel then the most efficient is maximum throttle.
this is the basis of small turbo engines- a smaller engine at higher throttle opening has less pumping loop (the energy wasted maintaining a vacuum under partial throttle), by adding a turbo and making the engine smaller the pumping loop will be less, whilst the turbo maintains higher power outputs when needed.
with an electric drive system, you can build an engine that doesn't need to rev, and therefore maximise efficiency at the rev range you want. then let the electric system deal with the practical need to throttle up and down.
the same principle applies to purely electric vehicle- why have an engine wit ~20% efficiency when you can at least use a power station at ~60% to get the same power.
Soldato
Yeah it's coming with the 48V stuff. Mercedes seem to have the lead on that with the motor integrated in the gearbox
This doesn't sound right. I have a 230bhp Fiesta ST and that managed 51 mpg on a 70mph run up to Nottingham. My partners Revo mapped 160bhp+ 1 litre EcoBoost gets better than mine.
Soldato
Got my focus back last night with the replaced rubberised coolant pipe, I got so lucky that I spotted the leak when I did. Jennings are absolutely useless and should have changed the pipe when it went in two years ago. Won't be using them again that's for sure.
Soldato
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Is that via OBC or did you work it out? Also as yours is mapped, im not sure its an apples to apples comparison.