Electric cars for people with no driveways

Haggisman said:
https://www.slashgear.com/qualcomms...-technology-is-ready-for-prime-time-07435352/ - 94%

https://electricautonomy.ca/2020/02/26/wireless-ev-charging-advancing-ev-adoption/ - 90-93%

https://www.energy.gov/eere/videos/wireless-charging-electric-vehicles - 90%

Here's one which claims 85%, which I'll grant you is low...

https://electrek.co/2018/05/28/bmw-...-charging-system-convenience-cost-efficiency/

...but it's only 3.2kw, let's look at the efficiency of other similar power charging

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/7046253

oh, that's funny, it's quite similar! 83.8% for level 1 (e.g. ~3.2kw from a standard 13a socket) and 89.4% for level 2 (7kw home chargepoint)

Let's see your sources then?
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Lol one of them even states "The option is touted as more “convenient” than charging with a cable, but it comes at a high cost: the actual cost, but more importantly – efficiency."

There is also the problem of the huge EM field it will generate.

It's just an experiment at the moment.
 
Nasher said:
Lol one of them even states "The option is touted as more “convenient” than charging with a cable, but it comes at a high cost: the actual cost, but more importantly – efficiency."
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You mean the one which I agreed is quite low (but actually comparable to the efficiency of wired charging at the same power)?

I'll ask again, where are all your sources that say it's inefficient? Apparently there are a lot of them, so shouldn't take you long :rolleyes:

What is the problem of the huge EM field it generates? Post some sources or keep your ill-informed opinions to yourself.
 
Nasher said:
High voltage EM fields are pretty dangerous...
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Aren't there too many words in that phrase?

High voltages are pretty dangerous. I can agree with that.

EM Fields aren't dangerous unless you're worried about them pulling off your tinfoil hat. Or you're talking about concentrated or beamed microwaves. But I don't think we are.

And the phrase High Voltage EM Fields isn't a real thing. You can get EM fields around High Voltages, but they're not dangerous in themselves. And in most cases with EV charging we're talking about voltages under 440/480V which is generally deemed to be low voltage.
 
WJA96 said:
Not at less than 440/480V. Well, maybe if you laid down on the charging pad wearing a metallic blanket.
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...but a guy who Nasher's nan's dog's vet's second cousin met down the pub said they're "pretty dangerous" (after a few pints), surely that trumps any of your "science" "studies" and "experts"!!?
 
Toothy1911 said:
Apparently there is a way of differentiating between public and private supply. Potentially the special cables they have. There is some kind of metered / control box inline.
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Not here for street lighting, unless it's changed in the last couple of years. I work for a local authority and dealt with the software that did the estimation work before changing roles a couple years ago.
 
So much anti-progression in this thread and across public sentiment as a whole. Whether you could term it fact or not I wouldn't go that far, but I do think EVs are the future; whether that's for cost, green or legislation factors (or a mix of these and others). It's definitely fact that for those that can, charging at home is far cheaper for both the owner and the local authority than investing in public EV infrastructure, and the public subsequently paying the cost for that via kWh or tax.

And that includes those without a drive, who, as I've said before, make up the vast, VAST majority of areas where EVs are needed most to tackle inner-city pollution. I haven't been able to find any hard figures on that, but from my knowledge of Bristol as an example, I would guess that at least 95% of households that live within Bristol's planned Clean Air Zone don't have a driveway or dedicated parking space. Conversely where pollution isn't an issue - suburbs and countryside - dedicated parking is plentiful.

So there just has to be a solution, which I believe is simply the way I'm currently working it. Home charger at home for occasional use and emergencies, a large portion of destination charging, and public charging en-route and as backup for those times when home/destination isn't possible. Public chargers are fine, but they cost a factor more than home and destination charging that they're not ideal regularly, and it just takes so much more investment to meet capacity.

Imagine if when ICEs were invented every home already had a fuel line installed? That's the position we're in with EVs.

No I can't park outside my house 100% of the time, but I can at least 80% of the time. My neighbours are all on-board, and when I first got it would message me almost every couple of days to ask if I needed to swap cars with them to charge (until I said no every time because I didn't need to charge that regularly). But if I asked they'd happily swap, and that mentality will be even more commonplace when EVs are mainstream. I already live in a Resident's Parking Zone, which is free for EVs, and it would take no work to switch it to "only EVs, one per household" once they become the majority, to ease home-charging.

Where there's a will there's a way. Unfortunately some people are like a stable boy when the Ford Model T came out. Nasher is the only person on this forum who has come close to being ignored but I feel it a duty to counter the absolute nonsense he spurts out in any thread related to EVs.
 
MagicBoy said:
Not here for street lighting, unless it's changed in the last couple of years. I work for a local authority and dealt with the software that did the estimation work before changing roles a couple years ago.
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You don't need to know how much electricity the street light uses because the meter is in the charger itself and you get charged for the electricity you use while charging.
 
Russinating said:
So much anti-progression in this thread and across public sentiment as a whole. Whether you could term it fact or not I wouldn't go that far, but I do think EVs are the future; whether that's for cost, green or legislation factors (or a mix of these and others). It's definitely fact that for those that can, charging at home is far cheaper for both the owner and the local authority than investing in public EV infrastructure, and the public subsequently paying the cost for that via kWh or tax.

And that includes those without a drive, who, as I've said before, make up the vast, VAST majority of areas where EVs are needed most to tackle inner-city pollution. I haven't been able to find any hard figures on that, but from my knowledge of Bristol as an example, I would guess that at least 95% of households that live within Bristol's planned Clean Air Zone don't have a driveway or dedicated parking space. Conversely where pollution isn't an issue - suburbs and countryside - dedicated parking is plentiful.

So there just has to be a solution, which I believe is simply the way I'm currently working it. Home charger at home for occasional use and emergencies, a large portion of destination charging, and public charging en-route and as backup for those times when home/destination isn't possible. Public chargers are fine, but they cost a factor more than home and destination charging that they're not ideal regularly, and it just takes so much more investment to meet capacity.

Imagine if when ICEs were invented every home already had a fuel line installed? That's the position we're in with EVs.

No I can't park outside my house 100% of the time, but I can at least 80% of the time. My neighbours are all on-board, and when I first got it would message me almost every couple of days to ask if I needed to swap cars with them to charge (until I said no every time because I didn't need to charge that regularly). But if I asked they'd happily swap, and that mentality will be even more commonplace when EVs are mainstream. I already live in a Resident's Parking Zone, which is free for EVs, and it would take no work to switch it to "only EVs, one per household" once they become the majority, to ease home-charging.

Where there's a will there's a way. Unfortunately some people are like a stable boy when the Ford Model T came out. Nasher is the only person on this forum who has come close to being ignored but I feel it a duty to counter the absolute nonsense he spurts out in any thread related to EVs.
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You can ignore me if you like. I'll put you on ignore now, so it goes both ways :)
 
Nasher said:
You can ignore me if you like. I'll put you on ignore now, so it goes both ways :)
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I'd love to, but I believe in freedom of speech for a start - hence nobody's on my ignore - and as Haggisman pointed out, we have a duty to counter your waffle because there's some people that will just read it and believe it.
 
Russinating said:
So much anti-progression in this thread and across public sentiment as a whole.

<snip>
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I'd love an EV, one with a couple hundred miles range would cover 99% of my journeys. Doesn't solve the issue to where to charge it. My off-road secure parking doesn't have power, the landlord is unreceptive to getting it installed. Can't charge it from my property short of throwing a 20m extension lead out of the window and down a few stories. On street issues have been discussed here, which leaves the four/five public charge points that usually have a queue for them.

I agree it's on Government to help fix it, but given central can't remotely contain a pandemic or award A-levels sensibly I don't hold out much hope. Local are cash starved by the former for reasons that baffle me.
 
Going back to the original question... no, I can't see there being any change in the rules on running cables across the street. Nor should there be IMO. I also can't see chargers in every lamp post happening any time soon with cash strapped councils. I'd say it was far more likely that every other lamp post will disappear over time!

For those people who only have on street parking with a public foot path between their property and the road I honestly think that for the time being the solution is simple - an ICE powered vehicle. As time moves on and ICE becomes prohibitively expensive there will be a natural cut off where EVs make sense, even without cheap home charging and I'd be pretty confident in saying that by the time we are talking in those economic terms fast public charging will be plentiful and your average "petrol" station car park has 50% of the pumps now serving rapid charging that takes 5 - 10 minutes. Just enough time to browse the shop and grab a coffee (other value added business models are available ;) )

As it stands I have about as much sympathy for someone with no off street parking who wants to charge their car at home as I do for myself who wants a camper van but has nowhere to physically keep one... ie. not much :D
 
Russinating said:
Where there's a will there's a way. Unfortunately some people are like a stable boy when the Ford Model T came out.
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This seems to be the case sadly. I bet if the internet had existed when the horse to combustion engine transition started there would have been the same resistance to change. I have stopped paying attention as it’s a waste of effort discussing it with some people. I would like to think that the audience of this forum are more open minded than your average facebook commenter though :)

Back to the original question - yes it’s a bit annoying to miss the key benefit of driveway charging if you don’t have a driveway. However, a decent speed charge in a car park where your car would be left anyway, or a rapid charge once a week while you do something else for a few minutes is something I’d happily put up with for all the other benefits of an EV.
 
lordrobs said:
Going back to the original question... no, I can't see there being any change in the rules on running cables across the street. Nor should there be IMO.
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Why is that? I understand people's hesitations - somewhat - but a large part of it is blame culture. What I have as a setup is no more dangerous than the 'drop' kerbs at the end of my road; if anything it's more visible and less of a step.

The problem is council's don't actively allow it (for fear of blame), nor are there any off-the-shelf insurances. If I was working at my local authority and there wasn't too much red tape, I would have on-street charging permits, which for a yearly fee provides insurance cover providing the user adheres to certain criteria including using approved cable covers that span the entire width of the pavement.

A more costly and time consuming solution is for shallow channels to be dug across the pavement which some other councils have done, but really unless it's done for every house on a street then it'd be cost-prohibitive.

m4uTmNg.jpg
 
blun said:
This seems to be the case sadly. I bet if the internet had existed when the horse to combustion engine transition started there would have been the same resistance to change. I have stopped paying attention as it’s a waste of effort discussing it with some people. I would like to think that the audience of this forum are more open minded than your average facebook commenter though :)

Back to the original question - yes it’s a bit annoying to miss the key benefit of driveway charging if you don’t have a driveway. However, a decent speed charge in a car park where your car would be left anyway, or a rapid charge once a week while you do something else for a few minutes is something I’d happily put up with for all the other benefits of an EV.
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While not an expert on the topic, and still to be convinced that an EV at this moment would be right for me, my understanding is that what you stated is far from optimal. I believe the advice from Tesla for example is to ABC when not in use (always be charging). While of course that's not always possible, you'd want to connect it each night at least and then leave it charging/maintaining overnight. In hot climates I think this also allows the battery pack to be cooled.
Running around in a tesla for a few weeks, depleting the battery to lets say 20% before charging again probably causes a higher level of battery degradation.

Based on the above being correct, I'd not buy one unless I can charge at least overnight, if not during the day too when at home.
Some areas of the USA they're struggling to access the fast(super chargers) during busy times apparently. So, if you can't charge at home and if/when EV's get more popular you could end up queuing up at charge points if the public charging infrastructure can't keep up with increasing demand.
 
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