Electric scooters and the law
- Thread starter Lmg80
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All the people saying that if a city has them available for hire, they're exempt (i.e. not illegal):
Where are all the exemptions and addendum to the Road Traffic Act to permit this? I certainly haven't seen any. Liverpool has these scooters available for hire (they have lights, indicators, need a driving licence to hire one etc), but if the police see you outside on one you're getting a tug and a TOR (ticket). Merseyside Police's Twitter is full of them, warning (again) that they're illegal unless on private land and if they see you, you're getting fined. That doesn't stop idiots and students whizzing all over the city's roads on them, usually two to a scooter, and zipping between traffic like that have an invincibility shield though.
Edit: It seems they've updated their stance with some characteristically murky 'guidance'. It's still illegal to ride scooters on the road as they cannot be insured, but in cities with schemes they are legal, presumably because the local authority is insuring them? I don't know it's as clear as mud. I suppose Liverpool isn't (or wasn't at that time) part of a scheme. Either way they're a bloody nuisance.
Where are all the exemptions and addendum to the Road Traffic Act to permit this? I certainly haven't seen any. Liverpool has these scooters available for hire (they have lights, indicators, need a driving licence to hire one etc), but if the police see you outside on one you're getting a tug and a TOR (ticket). Merseyside Police's Twitter is full of them, warning (again) that they're illegal unless on private land and if they see you, you're getting fined. That doesn't stop idiots and students whizzing all over the city's roads on them, usually two to a scooter, and zipping between traffic like that have an invincibility shield though.
Edit: It seems they've updated their stance with some characteristically murky 'guidance'. It's still illegal to ride scooters on the road as they cannot be insured, but in cities with schemes they are legal, presumably because the local authority is insuring them? I don't know it's as clear as mud. I suppose Liverpool isn't (or wasn't at that time) part of a scheme. Either way they're a bloody nuisance.
No they shouldnt, they are a motorised vehicle and as such, should be insured and the user licenced. Electric bikes are electrically assisted and dont work if you dont pedal, therefore are not the same at all
All the people saying that if a city has them available for hire, they're exempt (i.e. not illegal):
Where are all the exemptions and addendum to the Road Traffic Act to permit this? I certainly haven't seen any. Liverpool has these scooters available for hire (they have lights, indicators, need a driving licence to hire one etc), but if the police see you outside on one you're getting a tug and a TOR (ticket). Merseyside Police's Twitter is full of them, warning (again) that they're illegal unless on private land and if they see you, you're getting fined. That doesn't stop idiots and students whizzing all over the city's roads on them, usually two to a scooter, and zipping between traffic like that have an invincibility shield though.
Edit: It seems they've updated their stance with some characteristically murky 'guidance'. It's still illegal to ride scooters on the road as they cannot be insured, but in cities with schemes they are legal, presumably because the local authority is insuring them? I don't know it's as clear as mud. I suppose Liverpool isn't (or wasn't at that time) part of a scheme. Either way they're a bloody nuisance.
Only thing I know is the rental ones come with insurance when you rent them....not heard about that magically carrying over to private ones when they own them...
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I would like to read the policy, does it indemnify the hirer or the rider? Or both? What level of cover?
Unless you are assetless and broke you should steer clear of such devices unless you are 100% covered, especially in these litiguous times.
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The council run schemes are legal because insurance is included when you hire it, that's a fact and can be confirmed in the hire agreement. It's my understanding that private escooters are illegal unless on private land because they're not insured. It's also my understanding that, although many police officers turn a blind eye, many forces are being encouraged to impound private escooters caught in public due to an increase in accidents/incidents. If you get stopped on one you could be looking at points on your licence and a fine. It's this last point which put me off getting one.
Soldato
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I'm not fat, just big boned
In all seriousness, my own googling has come to same conclusion thanks all.
Any recommendations on am electric bike that can fold up. Budget about £500
For that budget I recommend a swytch conversion kit fitted to a cheap bike.
Judging by the number of posts on social media, the police now believe using privately owned escooters are a greater crime then theft of property.
I think it's not just the insurance aspect, but also the nature of the scooter. They are just not legal to use in public full stop unless part of a trial scheme, as the trial scheme will exempt them from having to meet all the legal requirements that a 'powered transporter' usually would:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48106617
I believe one of the other purposes of limiting scooter use to the trial schemes is that it gives the authorities some influence on the scooter design, so instead of having ludicrously fast and powerful machines with no lights which people would likely buy for their own use, they can have moderately fast and powerful scooters with only moderately invisible lights 5cm off the ground.
It’s not necessarily the stupidly of the U.K. law, it’s just that U.K. law dates back to the horse and cart. Last time I checked e-scooters were not around then.
Its simply that because the way the law is written, they are defined as a motor vehicle because they don’t fail into any other category and all the requirements which apply to motor vehicles, also apply to them. To separate them from motor vehicles, new legislation would need to be passed.
For me there are two types of scooter, one that should be allowed and treated similarly to bicycles and another which should be banned on public roads.
1) what I term as ‘light’ scooters, they have a similar design to a standard push scooter. They have lights which are permanently illuminated and have brakes. Have 250-500w power, top out at 15.5 mph and their acceleration is capped to what your average cyclist can achieve. The only reason for the extra power is for getting up inclines with a heavier rider otherwise 350w is more than fine. A good example is the very popular Xiaomi M365. Other non-scooters such as one wheels, electric unicycle and skateboards also would need to fit into this framework.
As they are to be treated similarly to bicycles, it means no riding on pavements but roads and cycle lanes are allowed. Helmets and insurance are optional but you’d be nuts not to have at least a helmet.
2) basically anything else, some of them have silly power, do crazy speeds, or they are huge, have large suspension, massive wheels and are generally pretty obnoxious things to be around on a public road and quite dangerous when they can do 65kph.
Once they set out a legal framework they can concentrate on enforcing it on people who ride anti socially or have a don’t have a scooter which fits into the framework as they do with bicycles now.
Its simply that because the way the law is written, they are defined as a motor vehicle because they don’t fail into any other category and all the requirements which apply to motor vehicles, also apply to them. To separate them from motor vehicles, new legislation would need to be passed.
For me there are two types of scooter, one that should be allowed and treated similarly to bicycles and another which should be banned on public roads.
1) what I term as ‘light’ scooters, they have a similar design to a standard push scooter. They have lights which are permanently illuminated and have brakes. Have 250-500w power, top out at 15.5 mph and their acceleration is capped to what your average cyclist can achieve. The only reason for the extra power is for getting up inclines with a heavier rider otherwise 350w is more than fine. A good example is the very popular Xiaomi M365. Other non-scooters such as one wheels, electric unicycle and skateboards also would need to fit into this framework.
As they are to be treated similarly to bicycles, it means no riding on pavements but roads and cycle lanes are allowed. Helmets and insurance are optional but you’d be nuts not to have at least a helmet.
2) basically anything else, some of them have silly power, do crazy speeds, or they are huge, have large suspension, massive wheels and are generally pretty obnoxious things to be around on a public road and quite dangerous when they can do 65kph.
Once they set out a legal framework they can concentrate on enforcing it on people who ride anti socially or have a don’t have a scooter which fits into the framework as they do with bicycles now.
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^ Entirely sensible and logical. When I am God Emperor, you will be my Lord of Transport.
Thanks
I forgot to add, riders should not be seated, if you want a seat, get an ebike.
Pretty much every electric bike on the market has a throttle and it's tolerated even if not technically legal, absolutely necessary too for starting up hills.
They aren't designed for the road though. Riding a bike with 20" wheels is sketchy on some of our roads so riding with 5-10" wheels is straight up dangerous especially with how unstable you are on these things and how fast you can go. If you hit a pothole going at 20mph you could bin it into the road and be under the following cars wheels in a second. The only way these are safe is if they are riden on pavements at with a limit of probably less than 10mph. Bikes aren't allowed on pavements for this very reason, they go too fast.
Yeah, I mean how on earth are you meant to start a normal bike on a hill. Its impossible!
They don't need insuring, they just need rules about how and where you can ride them. The problem is that there is nowhere safe for them to be ridden apart from cycle paths. Roads are too dangerous for the rider and non cycle paths are too dangerous for pedestrians.