Electric scooters and the law

[Junglist]

This is another reason why I think electronic unicycles are better than scooters. You have both yours hands free at all times, riding one at slower than walking pace is possible and they're easy to manoeuvre around on.

Superior in every single way apart from the learning curve. But I feel I could teach someone with decent balance how to ride one within 15 minutes.

 

[Hawk Tuah]

Care to share the circumstances of your accident?

Poor maintenance on my part sadly. One of the bolts holding the front wheel must have worked loose, and it came away enough for it to jam against the mud guard. That resulted in it stopping dead without any notice and I flew off of it. I was going about 30mph at the time. Daft thing is, I was wearing a helmet. But didn't hit my head. I tore a lot of skin off my palms and knees and broke my elbow - which a year later still gives me pain and I can't bend straight.

Needless to say, when I use the scooter now, I go a lot slower and wear cycling gloves.

This is another reason why I think electronic unicycles are better than scooters. You have both yours hands free at all times, riding one at slower than walking pace is possible and they're easy to manoeuvre around on.

Superior in every single way apart from the learning curve. But I feel I could teach someone with decent balance how to ride one within 15 minutes.

Apart from emergency braking perhaps.

 

[Junglist]

Apart from emergency braking perhaps.

I can stop pretty quickly on my wheel but I would imagine it would be easier to do a "oh crap" grab of brakes on the scooters.

I haven't actually ridden one yet, they're everywhere around Bristol and they seem really good value for money compared to other transport services. Maybe I'll give one a go soon!

 

[bainbridge]

Poor maintenance on my part sadly. One of the bolts holding the front wheel must have worked loose, and it came away enough for it to jam against the mud guard. That resulted in it stopping dead without any notice and I flew off of it. I was going about 30mph at the time. Daft thing is, I was wearing a helmet. But didn't hit my head. I tore a lot of skin off my palms and knees and broke my elbow - which a year later still gives me pain and I can't bend straight.

Needless to say, when I use the scooter now, I go a lot slower and wear cycling gloves.


Apart from emergency braking perhaps.

Ouch! Hope you do eventually fully recover. 30mph does sound quick for one of those things. I took a voi scooter on a long journey a couple of weeks ago. Normally I wear cycling gloves for riding my bike, but forgot them with the escooter. I sunburned the back of my hands!

 

[bainbridge]

This is another reason why I think electronic unicycles are better than scooters. You have both yours hands free at all times, riding one at slower than walking pace is possible and they're easy to manoeuvre around on.

Superior in every single way apart from the learning curve. But I feel I could teach someone with decent balance how to ride one within 15 minutes.

I think I could get the hang of riding one with practice, but I'd really struggle with the juggling

 

[Junglist]

I think I could get the hang of riding one with practice, but I'd really struggle with the juggling

The hardest part, I found, was believing that the wheel really would balance for you. Once I had my trust it would do its part I learned to ride it within a few minutes.

I've had one embarrassing fall outside of Fowlers, which of course had to happen on my first trip to work, but other than that I had 900 miles of care free riding on it.

 

[Energize]

Yeah, I mean how on earth are you meant to start a normal bike on a hill. Its impossible!

Don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but an ebike isn't a normal bike, they're often 25kg compared to 8kg for a normal bike because of the battery, motors, and gearing. Good look starting that up a 20% hill you've stopped on.

If it were me I'd do.

<150 watt. Not in scope. It's a child's toy and you can go faster on a push scooter.
150-350 watt. Over 12's only . 15mph limited. Allowed in pedestrian areas, pavements and cycle lanes. The scooter is registered and insured.
>350 watt. Treated as a moped. Adhere to local speed limits. Allowed on the road / cycle lanes only. Registered and insured, driver/bike license required.

Registration is done online. You get a little non-removable waterproof sticker with your number on.

Who on earth would provide insurance for 12 year olds and how could you enforce registration when you can build ebikes with almost no knowledge?

The law for ebikes and scooters should be the same, just say anything over 500W is classed as a normal motor vehicle, no speed restrictions are required as even 500W isn't going to get you faster than 30mph which is what cyclists already do on the roads.

Since their capabilities are no higher than a normal bike there should be no requirement for insurance.

 

[fez]

Don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but an ebike isn't a normal bike, they're often 25kg compared to 8kg for a normal bike because of the battery, motors, and gearing. Good look starting that up a 20% hill you've stopped on.

Totally serious. eMTBs do just fine without a throttle and I would wager people start those on much steeper hills that your average punter on the roads. Weight is also weight. An extra 8kg on a bike isn't going to make someone unable to get it going on a hill unless they would have struggled on a normal bike.

The main reason to ban throttle ebikes is because they are essentially motorbikes at that point and the industry isn't stupid and wanted to be lumped in with bikes, not motorbikes. Its a grey area but basically you are only allowed a throttle to get it going and then you have to at least pretend to pedal while the bike is going. That obviously doesn't stop people modifying them though.

 

[Hotwired]

The law for ebikes and scooters should be the same, just say anything over 500W is classed as a normal motor vehicle, no speed restrictions are required as even 500W isn't going to get you faster than 30mph which is what cyclists already do on the roads.

Since their capabilities are no higher than a normal bike there should be no requirement for insurance.

Peak speeds = capabilities?

Keep following that cyclist down the hill at 30mph and then what happens the other way up... 5-10mph... while the motorised bikes and scooters continue at 30mph up the hill.

I see this regularly, the delivery guys don't even pretend to pedal on their ebikes around here, they're getting up the hills at car speed.

Complete mockery to claim capabilities of motorised vehicles are no higher than a push bike so they should be treated as push bikes.

 

[Broken Hope]

Even the legal ones as part of trial aren’t used properly, the ones in Nottingham are used on pavements a lot when they shouldn’t be.

 

[Wizzkidy]

I saw some teen zooming down the road on one today and I live in a very small village. The do seem to be everywhere now, at least 30mph no helmet, t-shirt and shorts with a buddy on the back madness.

 

[Angilion]

They are illegal for some stupid reason, a drain on police resources. Get an eBike?

The reason is far from stupid. They're just not exempt from existing laws, as some people want them to be because their fun is more important than people's lives.

You can use a powered vehicle on the roads if it meets the appropriate safety standards. Which existing electric scooters don't. Which is why they're not legal on the roads.

You can't use a powered vehicle on the pavement. Not even if it's fun.

The OP is a different case - they want a road-legal electric scooter and they're willing to be a competent rider and to have insurance. But that's not what the potential mass market is, so there's nothing made for it. What most advocates want is a powered vehicle and a complete disregard for everyone else.

 

[Delvis]

Peak speeds = capabilities?

Keep following that cyclist down the hill at 30mph and then what happens the other way up... 5-10mph... while the motorised bikes and scooters continue at 30mph up the hill.

I see this regularly, the delivery guys don't even pretend to pedal on their ebikes around here, they're getting up the hills at car speed.

Complete mockery to claim capabilities of motorised vehicles are no higher than a push bike so they should be treated as push bikes.

An eScooter won't stay at the same speed going up a hill (at least all the rentals ones I've used, plus the ones in Belgium) are anything to go by.

A private one however I haven't a clue.

I'd get one, my works 15 minutes walk down the road and hooping on an eScooter would be sweet. There is a lass here who uses one down the same road (on the path, which is wide tbh)....Yeah she's in the wrong as far as I'm aware, unless you CAN get insurance for private ones now? Or is that a flat no?

 

[Dis86]

An eScooter won't stay at the same speed going up a hill (at least all the rentals ones I've used, plus the ones in Belgium) are anything to go by.

A private one however I haven't a clue.

I'd get one, my works 15 minutes walk down the road and hooping on an eScooter would be sweet. There is a lass here who uses one down the same road (on the path, which is wide tbh)....Yeah she's in the wrong as far as I'm aware, unless you CAN get insurance for private ones now? Or is that a flat no?

They still can't be used on public footpaths or roads.

 

[Delvis]

They still can't be used on public footpaths or roads.

The rentals are marked on paths mate....

 

[Dis86]

The rentals are marked on paths mate....

What? That doesn't make sense. The rentals whats are marked (?) on paths?

Are you trying to say that you can use rental scooters on paths?

 

[SexyGreyFox]

If there was a scooter hire scheme near me, I'd buy one the same brand as they use and paint it in the local schemes colours.

but you could only ride it on a designated route.
The one in Newcastle Stoke on Trent was around 2 miles long and the built in GPS would stop the scooter if you went off limits.

 

[Energize]

Totally serious. eMTBs do just fine without a throttle and I would wager people start those on much steeper hills that your average punter on the roads. Weight is also weight. An extra 8kg on a bike isn't going to make someone unable to get it going on a hill unless they would have struggled on a normal bike.

The main reason to ban throttle ebikes is because they are essentially motorbikes at that point and the industry isn't stupid and wanted to be lumped in with bikes, not motorbikes. Its a grey area but basically you are only allowed a throttle to get it going and then you have to at least pretend to pedal while the bike is going. That obviously doesn't stop people modifying them though.

I'm sorry but it's basic physics P=MV and E=1/2MV^2. A 250W ebike doing 6mph up a hill is not comparable to a motorobike.

Peak speeds = capabilities?

Keep following that cyclist down the hill at 30mph and then what happens the other way up... 5-10mph... while the motorised bikes and scooters continue at 30mph up the hill.

I see this regularly, the delivery guys don't even pretend to pedal on their ebikes around here, they're getting up the hills at car speed.

Complete mockery to claim capabilities of motorised vehicles are no higher than a push bike so they should be treated as push bikes.

I don't know how to respond to this fantasy. It's physically impossible to reach 30mi/h with the standard physics equations mg*delta(h)/t.

I saw some teen zooming down the road on one today and I live in a very small village. The do seem to be everywhere now, at least 30mph no helmet, t-shirt and shorts with a buddy on the back madness.

Yeah, I've freewheeled on a normal bike down a hill at 40mph, the torque of the motor has no effect at those speeds...

The reason is far from stupid. They're just not exempt from existing laws, as some people want them to be because their fun is more important than people's lives.

You can use a powered vehicle on the roads if it meets the appropriate safety standards. Which existing electric scooters don't. Which is why they're not legal on the roads.

You can't use a powered vehicle on the pavement. Not even if it's fun.

The OP is a different case - they want a road-legal electric scooter and they're willing to be a competent rider and to have insurance. But that's not what the potential mass market is, so there's nothing made for it. What most advocates want is a powered vehicle and a complete disregard for everyone else.

What safety standards? Ebikes are often sold without lights, with a throttle and de-restricted, safety standards aren't adhered to in the real world.

 

[Hotwired]

I don't know how to respond to this fantasy, I had a road legal 250W bike and it did 6-9mph up a hill. It's physically impossible to reach 30mi/h.

It's nice that you believe the ebikes and scooters going around are in compliance with current law so you immediately think of your experience with a 250W road legal bike.

 

[Delvis]

What? That doesn't make sense. The rentals whats are marked (?) on paths?

Are you trying to say that you can use rental scooters on paths?

Fat fingers

*Parked