Poll: Emilia Romagna Grand Prix 2022, Imola - Race 4

[Sui]

I think qualifying was just a bit dull because of the 4(?) red flags, just meant it dragged on for a long time with not a lot actually happening because of the weather

 

[Deleted member 651465]

I think the skinny packaging has taken away downforce they desperately need. The Ferrari is probably the fattest car on the grid and they're as happy as they could be.

Doesn't look like these concepts can handle the wet though, bit of a poor show. Imagine a race distance of it.

I agree with the sentiment but if that were the case, Merc would easily build fatter sidepods.

After all, there’s literally no packaging reason why they can’t scale up… I suppose they can be thankful the issue isn’t the reverse (them needing to go size zero with a packaging issue).

 

[this_is_gav]

Fair enough, but with that in mind if it was already seen in the eighties how come they were seemingly unprepared for it?

To be fair I didn't see anybody bring it up before testing started. Those who worked in the 70s and early 80s would have left F1 years ago - decades ago for most. I believe Adrian Newey might have experienced ground effect in CART before he started in F1, so might have been exposed to it then (and I can't recall seeing the Red Bull porpoise through testing or in a competitive session, so it looks like they were one of the few to anticipate it).

A few were speculating that McLaren's lack of porpoising might have something to do with some of their old engineers still running the museum cars today experienced it back then and passed their memories on to the current team, though those speculating quietened down when the McLarens looked horrifically slow in Bahrain (though they are showing signs of regrouping after missing almost the entire Bahrain test) - there may or may not be something in that.

 

[TrueCrazyLion]

Another 80s-themed thing was Albon’s brake explosion. Wasn’t quite a full Adelaide 1986 moment(I know that was a tyre, so not directly comparable!), but did look like it was getting there.

 

[Entai]

Lots of other differences with the aerodynamics compared to '80s cars. The problem they mentioned earlier is that it doesn't do it in the wind tunnel, so they're struggling to get good real world data about what's actually causing the issue now.

The reason they cannot replicate it in the wind tunnels, is that the new regulations do not allow the teams to run the wind tunnels fast enough.


Also remembering back to the eighties, we did not have high tech wind tunnels, nor CFD.

ALL our testing was on track, thousands upon thousands of miles worth of testing way before any racing started, so problems were found and rectified before the public ever saw anything.

Now the only on track testing teams get is during practice sessions.

The FIA regulations limiting wind tunnel speeds, on track testing , budget caps, are all coming to bite them in the arse, and all contributing to the teams not able to rapidly sort their issues.

 

[el_dazza]

Looking like today will be dry but rain is going to hit around race start time tomorrow

 

[jaybee]

Yet here we are and things are mixed up yes, but the weaker teams are still weak. So what objectives have been met? End Merc domination...check. Make F1 cost less and be better with carbon footprint? Make cars be able to follow more closely...check.

 

[bayo000]

Yet here we are and things are mixed up yes, but the weaker teams are still weak. So what objectives have been met? End Merc domination...check. Make F1 cost less and be better with carbon footprint? Make cars be able to follow more closely...check.

Personally that's what I was hoping for as did most people I spoke to about this. I don't mind a team to dominate for 2-3 or even 4 years but any longer than that, unless you're of course a fan of that team/ drivers line up, F1 becomes tedious. It would have been nice to have more teams fighting up front but compared to last big rules shake up in 2014 we at least have two closely matched teams and hopefully couple of other teams can close the gap over time.

 

[Scam]

Another 80s-themed thing was Albon’s brake explosion. Wasn’t quite a full Adelaide 1986 moment(I know that was a tyre, so not directly comparable!), but did look like it was getting there.

So we’ve gone all trendy and are running a throwback to the Eighties? Like Stranger Things, Wonder Woman?

Personally that's what I was hoping for as did most people I spoke to about this.

Thing is, that domination ended last year though didn’t it? Red Bull arguably had the fastest car (sometimes) and although they couldn’t have won the championship, Ferrari and McLaren were putting on a good show for 3/4th consistently.

I just can’t believe how poor Mercedes are now, it does feel like the FIA have really damaged them somehow (tin foil hat time)

 

[Malt_Vinegar]

The biggest problem with regulation changes is that the reset does shake things up, but often they come in as the law of diminishing returns and convergence of designs starts to level the field anyway.
However, no one wants to see the same cars thrashing around for 20 years. So they are needed to keep things relevant.
I still think we need to force the winning team each year to share the complete current A spec car design with the last place team, some named parts to the penultimate team, and then fewer to the next.
It would help close up the field earlier, and likely allow the lower teams to focus on other areas of improvement whilst remaining competitive.

 

[utajoker]

Could be as simple as merc can't run as low due to porpousing so don't make as much downforce from the floor.

Ferrari have it but not as bad so maybe they can run lower in general.

Watching hamilton yesterday it looked like he was going to get throw out the seat.

 

[JBeck]

Do we know what the heated looking discussion between Lewis and Toto was about? (I might have missed this earlier in the thread perhaps).

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Ferrari win this comfortably surely over RB?

 

[Mr Jack]

The chances of rain during the race proper have crept up again, that could liven things up. Otherwise I think we'll see Leclerc win both comfortably, with Sainz recovering most his lost places during the Sprint and the Mercs moving up to their usual 5/6 spots by the end of Sunday.

Do we know what the heated looking discussion between Lewis and Toto was about? (I might have missed this earlier in the thread perhaps).

They've dismissed it as nothing, so who knows? Could just have been frustration over the red flag? Could have been something more.

 

[bayo000]

Thing is, that domination ended last year though didn’t it? Red Bull arguably had the fastest car (sometimes) and although they couldn’t have won the championship, Ferrari and McLaren were putting on a good show for 3/4th consistently.

And we're pretty much in the same situation just swapping Merc with Ferrari. Yes it sucks for Lewis/ Merc fans but in the grand scheme of things that's a minority of F1 fan base.

 

[utajoker]

Do we know what the heated looking discussion between Lewis and Toto was about? (I might have missed this earlier in the thread perhaps).

I thought he was just shouting so ham could hear him because he still had his helmet on. Didnt look aggressive.

Bit of an explanation of mercs lack of speed. Up to 20kph slower through corner apex.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

And we're pretty much in the same situation just swapping Merc with Ferrari. Yes it sucks for Lewis/ Merc fans but in the grand scheme of things that's a minority of F1 fan base.

It won’t be long until people are moaning about ferrari domination, especially if they wrap this up early which is looking increasingly likely if RB keep breaking down.

 

[Jono8]

Probably along the lines of, we threw last years championship for this one and you’ve sold me a dud when I could have retired last year. He’ll be gone this year.

Or replacing Sainz at Ferrari?

 

[this_is_gav]

Also remembering back to the eighties, we did not have high tech wind tunnels, nor CFD.

Not compared to now, no.

I remember a The Race "Bring Back V10s" podcast (brilliant podcasts primarily discussing races and stories from 1989 to 2005) where they were discussing the French GP of 1990, when Capelli's Judd powered March (Adrian Newey designed and named Leyton House) led until three laps from the end when engine problems meant Prost beat him in the Ferrari.

Part of the podcast Newey was quoted that the wind tunnel they hired (in Southampton I think it was) wasn't correlating at all with the track feedback, it turned out because the wind tunnel floor was buckling under the load, completely distorting the results. They even failed to qualify four times in the three previous races, but when Newey got more accurate results they went from not qualifying to nearly winning.

 

[Jono8]

So we’ve gone all trendy and are running a throwback to the Eighties? Like Stranger Things, Wonder Woman?

Thing is, that domination ended last year though didn’t it? Red Bull arguably had the fastest car (sometimes) and although they couldn’t have won the championship, Ferrari and McLaren were putting on a good show for 3/4th consistently.

I just can’t believe how poor Mercedes are now, it does feel like the FIA have really damaged them somehow (tin foil hat time)

Yep.

Title wise, all these regulations have done compared with last year have swapped Merc for Ferrari, and we could potentially see a much more dull title race than last year if Ferrari continue being the fastest car and Red Bull's reliability remains dodgy.