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That’s what people have been saying in here.
Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)
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Soldato
the ofgen numbers however are the weighted contract costs of the main suppliers
Soldato
What ofgem numbers?
Soldato
The ones they use for the price cap setting
I think the up front contracts had some get out clause - like all bets are off if there is an act of Putin, exceptional situation.
(it's like the supemarkets setting, up front contracts, for egg suppliers, some of them have either gone to the wall and rescinded on contracts, due to unexpected feed+energy costs, or supermarkets had to relent because they need something on the shelves)
The answer is that they didn't instantly put prices up. A lot of people will have been on fixed contracts first of all, and there is usually a long delay before wholesale price changes result in price increases.
I get emails (well used to before the cap became the only price) on when my price went up/or down and it was always based on what has been happening for 3 to 6 months.
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Here are two examples from a provider who was (in hindsight) not hedging forwards far enough.
Up:
Energy price watch: we’re changing our prices | Blog | Bulb
We’re changing our prices. Our electricity prices are going up because wholesale energy costs have increased. Network costs - what we pay to keep energy moving - have gone up too, along with two central policy costs. This doesn’t apply to gas prices, which are coming down a little. Overall, a...
bulb.co.uk
Down:
Energy price watch: the wholesale market and your bill | Blog | Bulb
Wholesale energy costs continued to fall through the second half of 2019 and into 2020, especially the cost of gas. Meanwhile, network and policy costs for electricity are going up. We’ll be dropping gas prices soon, so members should keep a look out for our next update.
bulb.co.uk
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The reality is most people don't realise how high the wholesale price was in August/September - if the price cap reflected those costs it would have been £15k+on avg use.
Then there was a reduction in the wholesale price in late December, but it's still 4x the normal price, and people instantly expect the old energy unit prices to return.
I want lower prices too, but it's not happening that quickly.
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Permabanned
The price during Aug/Sept although high it was at a time when demand was much lower, no heating being used and peak solar output. Perhaps unit prices were too low for too long, I’ve been paying 17p+ kWh since I’ve owned this house which is 4 1/2 years, offset by the fact the majority of my electricity is off peak.
I fear that while energy producers are making record breaking bank and Governments are handing over tax payers subsidies the price, like the price at the pump will be much slower to come back down.
For sure, but household use time doesn't match the supplier purchase time .
Aug/Sept is probably the period when most of Europe was scrambling to secure Gas for Winter, right at the moment when Russia was pulling back their supplies. Hence the huge increase. It's better to have it a higher price, than not at all right !
A lot of people question why we don't use day ahead prices for energy. - two years ago some suppliers were and they went bankrupt, because the day ahead price it too volatile and they couldn't react when prices when quickly went up. Now we are all paying the price in higher elec Standing Charges, to cover the lost (£2bn) in customer credit balances.
If we had Gas storage it would smooth out demand, but the day-ahead gas price wouldn't be as low as currently, because demand for day-ahead gas would be higher. It's only low 'today' because we can't use it.
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Interesting, that would make more sense I guess.
Funny enough I would rather have cuts with much cheaper energy than constant expensive supply. This is on the condition it doesnt break our emergency services of course.
I agree the expensive summer was due to Europe topping up their supplies and a lack of wind. We have seen winter can cheap on dailies if we have enough wind.
I agree the expensive summer was due to Europe topping up their supplies and a lack of wind. We have seen winter can cheap on dailies if we have enough wind.
Soldato
That's an awful idea and makes no sense. We shouldn't be forcing cuts to anyone at this point. We should be fixing the system regardless of costs.
I am slightly prepared for a blackout (solar battery, only 2400Wh for now) but only for emergency. I wouldn't accept blackouts for lower pricing for energy if there was the option. If it needs to be done to protect the grid = fair enough but that's it.
You can sit with a headtorch on reading a book without the need for us all to participate. Turn your electricity off long enough to lower your energy costs to a level you feel is acceptable. Or do you only care about that if someone makes that decision for you?
Soldato
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I have a battery and could weather brownouts however at the time of install decided the likelihood of power cuts (other than the very rare fault) was so unlikely it was not worth the cost of going off grid.
this may have been a. mistake. hopefully however my next car will support a level of vehicle to home even if it's only 2.5kw output which will do for the kettle and telly.
forced blackouts however..... Christ we are not a 3rd world country or war torn. if it does happen it would show what a failure of a country we are and really highlight how badly we have been run into the ground.
this may have been a. mistake. hopefully however my next car will support a level of vehicle to home even if it's only 2.5kw output which will do for the kettle and telly.
forced blackouts however..... Christ we are not a 3rd world country or war torn. if it does happen it would show what a failure of a country we are and really highlight how badly we have been run into the ground.
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Soldato
What's the country going to do once a few million EV's are trying to draw power from the grid?
Soldato
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you read the likes of the daily express too much imo.
1) the number of electric cars won't go up over night.
2) without a doubt our renewable energy generation and storage as well as nuclear needs to increase over the next few decades as electric cars go up.
3) even now in an energy crisis electricity regularly hits close to zero prices or even negative. this is because supply is outstripping demand. electric cars will act as a sponge to level out the grid and help it rather than hurt it.
you are right people won't be expected to all charge their cars at 4pm however. agile pricing will stop this.
but 1am when demand is low? I think the grid will be ok so long as it's improved a little.
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Soldato
Never read it in my life.
How are we improving the grid ready for 2030/2035?
Soldato
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it's already happening. as electrical substations are naturally replaced.
peak demand on the grid has actually dropped over the last decade iirc so there is already slack
iirc china rolled out 16000 electric busses almost over night (relatively) and now have almost 500k busses on the road. (just googled that now).they have a far higher population and demand than we have but are electrifying
Soldato
Most EVs charge in the night when demand is very low (electric prices are often negative the demand is so low!) so it’s a non-issue. Even the national grid made a statement that EV demand will not exceed the grid capacity. https://www.nationalgrid.com/stories/journey-to-net-zero/electric-vehicles-myths-misconceptions
Soldato
Ah that's good then, no need for blackouts and other nonsense. I'm currently sitting here in a power cut so at least the electric will be a bit cheaper today.