Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Not fully true
When you look at the micro level, those with solar see immediate reductions in their bills
When you look at the macro level, because people with solar generate bit also store and use in peak times the costs of the grid at peak times are being pulled down. All that extra very expensive generation for peak times is being used less and less.
Sooner or later I think time of use based charging will have to come in and that will also have an impact. Encouraging those most willing to move to cheaper times, and hence giving a flatter grid usage and more usage encouraged to be when green generation is high.
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Technically it should end up creating cheaper electricity for everyone the more people use solar/renewables, that said I don't think we'll see that unless there's some sort of legal intervention.
 
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fez said:
Thats the issue with most of these things. They help the people in the middle and the top rather than people who need the help. Theres loads of things that make sense for us to do to our house from a energy saving/green perspective but they make almost zero financial sense.
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I'd consider myself "in the middle" and I can't be dropping 10k plus on panels right now or the near future. The money is simply not there. Last time I did some maths on it it would take about 7 years to pay back, in a house we might not stay in past that date. What with prices potentially coming back down to slightly more sensible levels, the uncertainty will put a lot off investing in it. Imagine you lose your home due to repo in a years time but have 15k's worth of panels on the roof. That's gonna smart.
 
Solar doesn't pay right?
Just calculated my effective electric cost for Feb.
Unit cost of 4.5p
Thats taking my actual bill, less savings session credit, and giving gas cost per unit to my units diverted into my hot water.
That balance ended up at £27.39 For 612.26kwh = 4.5p

3 months in and I am now at 3.7% capital payback. Still on track for around 6.75 years.
Fully expect the benefit to reduce somewhat when elec prices drop, but then my import of off peak units could well drop as well.
 
Freefaller said:
Technically it should end up creating cheaper electricity for everyone the more people use solar/renewables, that said I don't think we'll see that unless there's some sort of legal intervention.
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Yeah exactly my point, sorry if that didn't come across

There will come a point however that the very expensive peak type units are pushed down to eg gas plants, so its not as much as a saving as we would hope (its somewhat diluted)
What will really need to come is always the same, more storage
 
jaybee said:
I'd consider myself "in the middle" and I can't be dropping 10k plus on panels right now or the near future. The money is simply not there. Last time I did some maths on it it would take about 7 years to pay back, in a house we might not stay in past that date. What with prices potentially coming back down to slightly more sensible levels, the uncertainty will put a lot off investing in it. Imagine you lose your home due to repo in a years time but have 15k's worth of panels on the roof. That's gonna smart.
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We could afford it but are largely in the same position as you. Our roof might need some serious work doing to it as well in the near future. It might increase the value of the house but it might not and we are planning to move in the next 5 years. To put the system we want on the house would probably cost easily £10k as well.

If our house ran more on electricity than gas then it would also make more sense...but it doesn't.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
Yeah exactly my point, sorry if that didn't come across

There will come a point however that the very expensive peak type units are pushed down to eg gas plants, so its not as much as a saving as we would hope (its somewhat diluted)
What will really need to come is always the same, more storage
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No it came across well - I was just restating your point as I was in total agreement! :)
 
jaybee said:
I'd consider myself "in the middle" and I can't be dropping 10k plus on panels right now or the near future. The money is simply not there. Last time I did some maths on it it would take about 7 years to pay back, in a house we might not stay in past that date. What with prices potentially coming back down to slightly more sensible levels, the uncertainty will put a lot off investing in it. Imagine you lose your home due to repo in a years time but have 15k's worth of panels on the roof. That's gonna smart.
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house getting repo'd I must admit i cant come up with a counter to that............... but dont forget even IF you sell after 5 years and imagine you are still lets say £3000 off breaking even on your system..... surely having such a system would add value to your home?

I know if i was buying a new house one of my 1st calculations would be how much would it cost to add a solar system to it (and i would not buy a house i could not add solar to - unless it was dirt cheap!)

that said, there is also ripple energy if you want to contribute, get some money off your bills and have something that you can take with you when you move. investing money into a windfarm could make more financial sense.
 
fez said:
Our roof might need some serious work doing to it as well in the near future
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This is a very sensible thought....... 1 thing which boggles me (and the installers are partly to blame for not being honest) is when people put a new solar system on a knackered roof.

My dad is a retired roofer so got him to inspect my roof. it was a 1961 build with Marley tile on it, which were .......... ok but getting near end of life. highly unlikley the roof have lasted the 20 years i hope my solar system lasts.

This is my forever home all being well so i was happy to pay to have it reroofed 1st as it would need doing sooner or later anyway. That said, solar panels do protect your roof so a solar covered roof should last a little longer than one not covered. That was another 5k however.
 
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Yeah we have a loft conversion with a flat roof and I understand installing solar on flat roofs is not really a thing or ill advised as they won't self clean. Angling them slightly would look a bit unsightly I feel as you would be looking towards the front of house from the side of the way they are titled if you get me. So you'd see the triangular silhouette shape above the roof.
 
jaybee said:
I'd consider myself "in the middle" and I can't be dropping 10k plus on panels right now or the near future. The money is simply not there. Last time I did some maths on it it would take about 7 years to pay back, in a house we might not stay in past that date. What with prices potentially coming back down to slightly more sensible levels, the uncertainty will put a lot off investing in it. Imagine you lose your home due to repo in a years time but have 15k's worth of panels on the roof. That's gonna smart.
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You could always look at doing a simpler DIY-level installation - There's very little stopping anybody just buying their own panels/inverter & fitting on a frame in the garden/against fence/shed roof. You could even build the system up gradually as funds allow. You can then fairly easily take it all with you when you move, with the only sunk cost being the electric connection from house to where the panels are sited.
 
jaybee said:
Yeah we have a loft conversion with a flat roof and I understand installing solar on flat roofs is not really a thing or ill advised as they won't self clean. Angling them slightly would look a bit unsightly I feel as you would be looking towards the front of house from the side of the way they are titled if you get me. So you'd see the triangular silhouette shape above the roof.
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You can fit them on brackets that slightly angle the panels.

The problem is that planning permission comes into play with roof height on a flat roof, as the panels extend the height of the roof a little.
 
jaybee said:
Yeah we have a loft conversion with a flat roof and I understand installing solar on flat roofs is not really a thing or ill advised as they won't self clean. Angling them slightly would look a bit unsightly I feel as you would be looking towards the front of house from the side of the way they are titled if you get me. So you'd see the triangular silhouette shape above the roof.
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If you're willing to clean them once a week then you're fine! ;)
 
jaybee said:
Yeah we have a loft conversion with a flat roof and I understand installing solar on flat roofs is not really a thing or ill advised as they won't self clean. Angling them slightly would look a bit unsightly I feel as you would be looking towards the front of house from the side of the way they are titled if you get me. So you'd see the triangular silhouette shape above the roof.
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to be honest if you installed them flat i think they would be pretty crap at generating power anyway. you need to angle them. i dont know what the minumum angle is. i have considered putting them on our (almost) flat roof but i think the neighbours would complain quite loudly as they would look a mess.
 
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HungryHippos said:
I could afford Solar but the EV is too much of a stretch for me atm! :)

Figure the Solar will help every thing, EV is just the vehicle front.
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Same, I could afford one or the other. Due to the sheer cost however neither is a goer for me.

Solar and EVs are certainly not appropriate for the people who would benefit most unfortunately
 
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