Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Quite; this would not replace or be instead of available exceptions via social tariffs whether through medical needs / requirements, in receipt of Universal Credit or other forms of state benefit. With respect to individual households investing, usually thousands of pounds, in solar or other forms of renewables, is this not entirely the point. To reduce household energy consumption and being less reliant on the grid? During leaner months, these households would still pay based on consumption from the grid and one would have to presume the energy providers know these usage trends and supply demand based on previous years data.

I confess I'm disillusioned with the entire energy landscape. So much effort has been put in to deploying smart meters, highlighting methods to use less energy and save money, be more energy conscious etc yet against the backdrop of energy producers making bank, in these supposed dire times, and (sister) energy suppliers crying foul. I'm using a third of the energy I did 2 years ago but paying twice as much with more increases to come.

What the hell is the point.

*grumble*

The issue with solar people (myself included) is that we are from a grid point of view potentially low users, and yet actually quite demanding. Even on a day to day basis my demand goes up and down.
Hell on flux people are pulling high loads from the grid and then exporting later. The grid still needs to be maintained, provisioned, meters changed and updated etc
Yet we may appear as low users.

Social tariffs mean others have to pay. Someone has to pay.
As typical once you start with these sorts of strategy it ends up pushing the squeezed middle, not the "poor" not the "rich", those in the middle who are just assumed to be able to pick up all the slack and just accept it.

We are terrible for not investing in the UK. But we are even worse at complaining about paying to invest.
Take HS2, now I am not sure its good value for money but its yet again proper infrastructure investment and people don't want to pay.

They want to go greener but want someone else to pay for the enablement etc etc.

 

[delta0]

The SC is needed.
Otherwise someone with huge solar array would pay nothing. Despite benefiting from selling to the grid. The cabling, the running of the grid. Etc etc.

Someone with a huge solar array could go off grid and not pay anything. Most probably haven’t done this but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s an increasing number.

 

[413x]

Someone with a huge solar array could go off grid and not pay anything. Most probably haven’t done this but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s an increasing number.

They'd probably want to be selling back to the grid through. Which would mean needing the infrastructure.

 

[200sols]

Someone with a huge solar array could go off grid and not pay anything. Most probably haven’t done this but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s an increasing number.

They really couldn't, there are many days in winter when they generate barely anything. As others have said most people on solar are big grid users, either selling or topping up batteries.

 

[darkgen]

The issue with solar people (myself included) is that we are from a grid point of view potentially low users, and yet actually quite demanding. Even on a day to day basis my demand goes up and down.
Hell on flux people are pulling high loads from the grid and then exporting later. The grid still needs to be maintained, provisioned, meters changed and updated etc
Yet we may appear as low users.

Social tariffs mean others have to pay. Someone has to pay.
As typical once you start with these sorts of strategy it ends up pushing the squeezed middle, not the "poor" not the "rich", those in the middle who are just assumed to be able to pick up all the slack and just accept it.

We are terrible for not investing in the UK. But we are even worse at complaining about paying to invest.
Take HS2, now I am not sure its good value for money but its yet again proper infrastructure investment and people don't want to pay.

They want to go greener but want someone else to pay for the enablement etc etc.

I've no issue with paying or wanting investment but what the hell is ever produced; this country seems to be in a death-loop for persistently overpaying for failure or failed initiatives / projects which end up being half-arsed or half-delivered.

With respect to green technologies; I’m also not adverse for paying for results; to see something tangible, usable and cost-effective within years but not decades, or at all. I fear the middle will be rinsed further over the coming decade/s as we see further failures to deliver greener boiler tech, hit any meaningful installation targets or more importantly actually provide cheaper energy.

 

[delta0]

They'd probably want to be selling back to the grid through. Which would mean needing the infrastructure.

Very likely if they are selling.

They really couldn't, there are many days in winter when they generate barely anything. As others have said most people on solar are big grid users, either selling or topping up batteries.

Even just for part of the year if they aren’t selling anything it could be possible.

 

[darkgen]

The SC is needed.
Otherwise someone with huge solar array would pay nothing. Despite benefiting from selling to the grid. The cabling, the running of the grid. Etc etc.

Using my, clearly flawed "consolidated UC" proposition, this could include a contribution, perhaps a transactional cost per unit back to the grid.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Someone with a huge solar array could go off grid and not pay anything. Most probably haven’t done this but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s an increasing number.

It really depends what timeframe your are talking about
day by day, month by month, year by year etc

Even relatively small arrays can be net zero from grid this time of year.

Using my, clearly flawed "consolidated UC" proposition, this could include a contribution, perhaps a transactional cost per unit back to the grid.

Generally we already get a low value for what we export. What transactional cost would this be?

Its yet more admin, so no on top of having to maintain a list of users who need a special tariff to exclude them from the Sc element you just added to the UC you now need someone to apply special charging to exporters.
Is this per day, or what?

You realise all this extra admin is two things, 1) the opportunity for the suppliers to royally **** it up as they regularly do, and 2) adding yet more cost into the whole scenario

 

[darkgen]

I concede, it's a panacea

 

[200sols]

I've no issue with paying or wanting investment but what the hell is ever produced; this country seems to be in a death-loop for persistently overpaying for failure or failed initiatives / projects which end up being half-arsed or half-delivered.

With respect to green technologies; I’m also not adverse for paying for results; to see something tangible, usable and cost-effective within years but not decades, or at all. I fear the middle will be rinsed further over the coming decade/s as we see further failures to deliver greener boiler tech, hit any meaningful installation targets or more importantly actually provide cheaper energy.

We still need to seperate the cost of renewable energy from gas, we are world leaders in wind power the investment has been massive and expanding all the time however. Our big failure was not building more nuclear decades ago, peoples perception of danger ruined that and now we are paying the price of still thrashing old gas turbines.

 

[chrcoluk]

OOof predictions not getting that much better, and the SCs

Standing Charge and Unit Cost predictions:
July-Sept SC£/day) Elec–0.53, Gas–0.29 UC: (p/kWh) Elec–29.55, Gas–7.55
Oct-Dec SC£/day) Elec- 0.54, Gas– 0.30 UC: (p/kWh) Elec – 30.59, Gas – 7.53
Jan – Mar: SC£/day) Elec–0.54, Gas–0.30 UC: (p/kWh) Elec–31.45, Gas–7.86

SC's are not going back down without a political intervention now I think. That will only happen if is enough pressure from the media/public. I suspect gov have quietly decided to offload bulb cost to general taxation at least though, but ofgem are now in the trap of doing cost creep on to SC, as they are frit of losing more suppliers in the market, the latest one being they allowing suppliers to recover bad debt via SC.

Apparently the SOLR costs have already started going down (but replaced with other costs now), so the public told SC increases would be temporary isnt really playing out.

 

[chrcoluk]

Octopus tracker is full of warmings about spiking has anyone one on it found it to spike significantly? How do you avoid using energy if it does?

It will be more stable than Agile, as tracker is averaged costs over a day. My costs today look fine, I checked phone earlier today 4.xx p for gas, and electric (agile) is only hitting EPG level for 4 hours today. Most of the day is in the teens.

 

[bigmike20vt]

We still need to seperate the cost of renewable energy from gas, we are world leaders in wind power the investment has been massive and expanding all the time however. Our big failure was not building more nuclear decades ago, peoples perception of danger ruined that and now we are paying the price of still thrashing old gas turbines.

you are right our renewables are impressive.... just a damn shame its all foreign owned however.... dont get me wrong i am far from xenophobic, but that profit should be coming to uk based companies (would be even better if state owned but even private companies, then at least it would be uk taxable profit)

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

SC's are not going back down without a political intervention now I think. That will only happen if is enough pressure from the media/public. I suspect gov have quietly decided to offload bulb cost to general taxation at least though, but ofgem are now in the trap of doing cost creep on to SC, as they are frit of losing more suppliers in the market, the latest one being they allowing suppliers to recover bad debt via SC.

Apparently the SOLR costs have already started going down (but replaced with other costs now), so the picture you posted kind of masking whats going on, as it shows a slight increase when it should have gone down a notable amount.

Yep I was surprised at the details above from ofgem.

If they are recovering bad debt this way, again its something that should be debated

I did see something that said typically its a while between things starting and being started to be recovered via the mechanism

Its all a bit of a mess

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

you are right our renewables are impressive.... just a damn shame its all foreign owned however.... dont get me wrong i am far from xenophobic, but that profit should be coming to uk based companies (would be even better if state owned but even private companies, then at least it would be uk taxable profit)

welcome to the UK
everything is for sale if you are foreign

 

[a1ex2001]

you are right our renewables are impressive.... just a damn shame its all foreign owned however.... dont get me wrong i am far from xenophobic, but that profit should be coming to uk based companies (would be even better if state owned but even private companies, then at least it would be uk taxable profit)

It goes back further than that we should never have allowed the sale of critical national infrastructure to foreign companies, all part of the Thatcher get rich quick scheme and it has come back to haunt us as we are now beholden to companies that don't have our national interest at heart.

 

[200sols]

you are right our renewables are impressive.... just a damn shame its all foreign owned however.... dont get me wrong i am far from xenophobic, but that profit should be coming to uk based companies (would be even better if state owned but even private companies, then at least it would be uk taxable profit)

I don't understand why we don't invest in state owned infrastructure like this I agree but they do pax tax in the UK, they also got hit with a windfall tax that was going to be higher than oil and gass firms paid, last I heard some legal challenges were going ahead.

Apparently the SOLR costs have already started going down (but replaced with other costs now), so the public told SC increases would be temporary isnt really playing out.

Pretty hard for much to come down with inflation in double digits.

 

[Rab]

made a post here some months back, took advice, but still in same spot. this severly messed up my health more, since i'm connected to a pump 10 hours a day, with times just didn't have any electric
Utility Company.
zero help from electric company regarding goverment help with the £66 x 6) got the 1st 2 installments , but nothing from november. tryed every month since December only to be fobbed off with a lot of crap everytime ( april call blamed the postmen, GRR)
anything i can do? any ideas plz?

 

[Vanquish-Storm]

It will be more stable than Agile, as tracker is averaged costs over a day. My costs today look fine, I checked phone earlier today 4.xx p for gas, and electric (agile) is only hitting EPG level for 4 hours today. Most of the day is in the teens.

Do you think its just a T&Cs thing that they have to state then? On the first page it talks about it can be 100x more.

 

[413x]

We still need to seperate the cost of renewable energy from gas, we are world leaders in wind power the investment has been massive and expanding all the time however. Our big failure was not building more nuclear decades ago, peoples perception of danger ruined that and now we are paying the price of still thrashing old gas turbines.

Its only full. On eco crazies who would deny nuclear doesn't have a place.

Failure of consistent governments both Labour and tories on this one. Neither come out clean.


Same old story. They only think about the next 4 years