Energy Prices (Strictly NO referrals!)

[413x]

I feel your pain.... (used Sept as last full month statement)

Elec SC is 43% of my Elec bill
Gas SC is 64% of my Gas bill

It'll be less in Winter so I'll revisit it in Dec/Jan

That electric standing charge is 2x mine.
Ridiculous how it's shot up.


Standing charge is never going to be as important as until for me. With WFH using 10+ MW a day especially in winter.

 

[Richie]

Really standing charge should be infrastructure only. It probably should be regionally variable. As some areas are cheaper than others.

I don't agree. SC should be a the same amount for anywhere on the UK. If its deemed reasonable for everyone to bail out customer balances from failed energy businesses, then its reasonable to have a SC set to the same level UK wide. Also consider that some areas of the UK produce more energy than they use (overall net exporters) yet are almost the highest in SC in the UK.

 

[413x]

I don't agree. SC should be a the same amount for anywhere on the UK. If its deemed reasonable for everyone to bail out customer balances from failed energy businesses, then its reasonable to have a SC set to the same level UK wide. Also consider that some areas of the UK produce more energy than they use (overall net exporters) yet are almost the highest in SC in the UK.

I guess it's difficult and it's the same argument of Royal mail deliveries.

But I'd say if you live in a house in hills on your own your SC grid charge is huge.

Is it right or not that everyone subsidises your choice? Or should the SC be big enough to encourage you to go off grid? Because if you did. And everyone did the SC would be cheaper for all.

 

[Richie]

I guess it's difficult and it's the same argument of Royal mail deliveries.

But I'd say if you live in a house in hills on your own your SC grid charge is huge.

Is it right or not that everyone subsidises your choice? Or should the SC be big enough to encourage you to go off grid? Because if you did. And everyone did the SC would be cheaper for all.

You could ask if it is right that everyone subsidises the choice of a consumer to go with a company, usually due to being cheapest, that then goes bust and said consumer has an amount of money held by that company?

EDIT - I could be wrong but do some of the Green Levies within the SC pay for (or used to pay for) grants for Solar install and heat pump install? Both of these generally only open to the wealthier population even when using said grant? Is it right that the poorer subsidise the wealthier to get green installs which then further reduce the wealthier persons bills?

 

[413x]

You could ask if it is right that everyone subsidises the choice of a consumer to go with a company, usually due to being cheapest, that then goes bust and said consumer has an amount of money held by that company?

You could very much ask this.
But we do it with pensions, bank accounts etc.
I'd say it's fair as it's ofwats job to do this.. Which obviously they are terrible at.

But yes. It is in the "where do you stand" position.


I'm happy with either because I sit. On the fence. And it's easier when it's standard.

 

[200sols]

At this point SoLR makes up like a few % of the standing charge, its basically irrelevant.

 

[413x]

At this point SoLR makes up like a few % of the standing charge, its basically irrelevant.

I suspected as much. Does that mean it's due to come down? Probably not!

 

[Richie]

At this point SoLR makes up like a few % of the standing charge, its basically irrelevant.

Oh, I know that but its the principle not the amount. The principle of @413x's point was questioning if certain decisions should or should not be subsidised by others. I used the SoLR as another example where this "subsidisation" was deemed ok.

 

[chrcoluk]

The bailing out of failed suppliers has to come out of somewhere. Only other option is general tax. (probably better as that's targeted at better off individuals).

Really standing charge should be infrastructure only. It probably should be regionally variable. As some areas are cheaper than others.

Thats almost all paid for now, its been replaced by other supplier stuff.

The failing suppliers shouldnt need a bailout at all though if done properly (at least not in terms of protecting credit balances), just isolate credit balances.

But as you said general taxation is a better system if its needed.

 

[ci_newman]

what gets my goat is it's finally come out that the ukraine and usa .. did this to us by blowing the pipeline ... and theres nothing we can do about it .. and it's not if the .gov will do anything ..

I think you need to stop reading conspiracy sites.

Nord Stream 1 was shut down by Russia as retaliation for our trade embargos after they invaded Ukraine.

Nord Stream 2 never entered active service because Europe refused to commission it after Russia invaded Ukraine.

Whatever the cause of the Nordstream explosions, "they" did not "do" anything to "us". The energy crisis is a direct result of the Ukraine war, not because someone sabotaged some disused gas pipleines.

[Edit] Also worth noting that the Nordstream pipelines delivered gas to the EU, not to the UK.

 

[eddyr]

I think you need to stop reading conspiracy sites.

Nord Stream 1 was shut down by Russia as retaliation for our trade embargos after they invaded Ukraine.

Nord Stream 2 never entered active service because Europe refused to commission it after Russia invaded Ukraine.

Whatever the cause of the Nordstream explosions, "they" did not "do" anything to "us". The energy crisis is a direct result of the Ukraine war, not because someone sabotaged some disused gas pipleines.

[Edit] Also worth noting that the Nordstream pipelines delivered gas to the EU, not to the UK.

Not to mention the high gas prices, that peaked at 600pence/therm in August 2022, preceded the Nord stream sabotage of September 2022. And had actually already been significantly and consistently elevated for over a year by that point - due to the war but also before the Feb 22 invasion.

UK Natural Gas - Price - Chart - Historical Data - News

UK Gas increased 12.23 GBp/Thm or 15.15% since the beginning of 2024, according to trading on a contract for difference (CFD) that tracks the benchmark market for this commodity. UK Natural Gas - values, historical data, forecasts and news - updated on August of 2024.

tradingeconomics.com

@flea.rider you might want to double check the timeline.

 

[Beans on toast Dave]

what gets my goat is it's finally come out that the ukraine and usa .. did this to us by blowing the pipeline ... and theres nothing we can do about it .. and it's not if the .gov will do anything ..

Links?

 

[ci_newman]

Links?

Conspiracy theory.net, the same place he gets his knowledge on climate change

 

[Smokey Deza]

They would then he would get a massive bill once its corrected more than likely depending on what the issue is with the meter in the first place.

I could just tell them I haven't been at the property in the last few years and only recently just moved in. I doubt the meter will tell them anything, sounds totally gonzo.

Getting it fixed or replaced later today though

 

[jpaul]

Based on our analysis, for a typical dual fuel household2 we predict the Q1 2024 price cap to be: £1,931
This is a rise of 5% from the current price cap which is set at £1,834 per year for a typical consumer.
...
From the second 2024 price cap period (April-June), Cornwall Insight is also predicting a rise in electriricty standing charges, with April seeing an increase of 8p per day. The high increase in electricity standing charges is primarily due to the ongoing reform of network charges, which has shifted more of the charges from per unit to per day, meaning that customers will incur such costs regardless of their actual consumption.

Electricity	Q124 Forecast	Q224 Forecast	Q324 Forecast	Q424 Forecast
Standing Charge (£/day)	0.53	0.61	0.60	0.61
Per Unit Costs (p/kWh)	28.69	26.57	25.59	26.69
Gas	Q124 Forecast	Q224 Forecast	Q324 Forecast	Q424 Forecast
Standing Charge (£/day)	0.30	0.30	0.30	0.30
Per Unit Costs (p/kWh)	7.42	7.00	7.01	7.06

..

was the 8p what earlier dm article was about.

 

[El Jimben]

Octopus users - I see that they are doing some 'surprise' savings sessions that they'll only notify you about via their WhatsApp update channel.

 

[martin363]

I have just been looking at Greek Electricity prices from December, and they make the UK cost per kWh look unforgivable....

PPC, basically the Government company is charging 17 cents per kWh up to 500kWh per month, and 18.5 cents above this.

The private companies are significantly cheaper....

Watt & Volt 8.88 Cents per kWh
NRG 11.7 Cents per kWh

I should also mention, there is no standing charge

Gas isn't a thing in Greece, unless bottled

For anyone interested, the prices are here... you will need to auto translate

https://www.astrosnews.gr/oikonomia/oi-times-promitheyton-reymatos-ton-dekembrio

 

[chrcoluk]

Octopus users - I see that they are doing some 'surprise' savings sessions that they'll only notify you about via their WhatsApp update channel.

It was already bad enough that people were given barely any notice. Is there some sort of motivation for them to get as little people on the sessions as possible?

Follow our WhatsApp Channel to hear about Surprise Sessions. These are Sessions (often with higher rewards) where we won't have enough notice to invite you via email or app. Find out more.

Get the Octopus app and turn on notifications to hear about all other Saving Sessions.

I noticed I got no email for the session I missed.

 

[200sols]

I have just been looking at Greek Electricity prices from December, and they make the UK cost per kWh look unforgivable....

PPC, basically the Government company is charging 17 cents per kWh up to 500kWh per month, and 18.5 cents above this.

The private companies are significantly cheaper....

Watt & Volt 8.88 Cents per kWh
NRG 11.7 Cents per kWh

I should also mention, there is no standing charge

Gas isn't a thing in Greece, unless bottled

For anyone interested, the prices are here... you will need to auto translate

https://www.astrosnews.gr/oikonomia/oi-times-promitheyton-reymatos-ton-dekembrio

Electricity in Greece is heavily subsidised by the government.

 

[martin363]

Electricity in Greece is heavily subsidised by the government.

And so? The UK government was effectively doing the same until recently. Makes the UK Expensive, very expensive.

The Private companies are very cheap compared to the UK. It doesn't matter what sets the bill, only what the end consumer pays as a comparison. The UK consumer is being ripped off compared to other countries - perhaps we subsidise them.